Did you kill Paarthurnax?

[StayFrosty05]

Fascinating that this debate rages when the only clear resolution was realizing that the Blades (and hell, the Greybeards/Paarthurnax) were just badly written. They wasted the potential of Esbern (he was supposed to be your character's mentor, but in the game he may as well just be a figment of Delphines imagination for all his worth) and you could tell whoever wrote Delphine struggled to write her lines. The Greybeards barely have any writing to them at all and Paarthurnax's entire point as a character is to just shuffle you into the next set piece. Beyond that, he may as well be a figment of Arngeir's imagination for all his real worth.

 

As for what writing these characters do have, lets remember that the Blade's sole purpose now that they've been relieved of their duties to the Emperor is to either slay dragons under the Dragonborn's protection or resign themselves to live in the shadows until the Thalmor no longer chase them. That the Blades want Paarthurnax dead isn't surprising, he was one of their original targets back before Alduin's return and honestly, it isn't wrong to resign to having no dragon's rather than trusting that a creature whose want to dominate and enslave is instinctual won't fall back to his lesser nature. Paarthurnax might be holding his instincts back, and may have been holding them back for quite a long time by now, but the fact that he is still fighting them just has hard as he was the first day he fought them shows us that he is nothing more than a time bomb attached to a shovel. Useful sure, but as soon as that bomb goes off you'll will have wished you just used your hands to dig your holes.

 

So again, that you can't order the Blades to leave Paarthurnax alone or work out an agreement between the two isn't because the Blades are actually assholes who won't even hear of a negotiation. Its because this particular segment of the game is not only devastatingly written but also severely underdeveloped. The entire point of the Blades faction in the game is to shuffle you in front of Alduin's Wall. Thats it. They serve absolutely zero practical value in the game beyond that.

 

All of the dialog in the game is badly written or I should say written at an immature level, it strikes me that the mentality behind the dialogs is aimed at a 12 year old's perception of the world...but that is what we have to work with and the characters as are written, as such I would disagree about Esbern and feel the mentor was meant to be Parrthrunax.

 

As for the Blades, they in fact had two purposes...to guide and protect the Dragonborn...though their supposed guidance is straight up genocide of an entire species.....The funny thing, you feel Paarthurnax should be killed because he instinctively feels the need to "Dominate and Enslave", that's sounds like basic human nature to me, as a species we certainly seem hell bent on achieving just that anyway....check your own back yard first before condemning another Imperistan.

 

But yes, the whole quest and game is shallow and badly written, no impact or depth...beautiful graphics though.... :biggrin:

[kevkiev]

Fascinating that this debate rages when the only clear resolution was realizing that the Blades (and hell, the Greybeards/Paarthurnax) were just badly written. They wasted the potential of Esbern ...and you could tell whoever wrote Delphine struggled to write her lines. The Greybeards barely have any writing to them at all and Paarthurnax's entire point as a character is to just shuffle you into the next set piece. .... this particular segment of the game is not only devastatingly written but also severely underdeveloped...

...

But yes, the whole quest and game is shallow and badly written, no impact or depth...beautiful graphics though.... :biggrin:

 

^ This (The graphics thing being subject to, imo, the NEED for the multitude of texture mods here on Nexus.)

[SFBryan18]

Well, I was satisfied with the civil war and dark brotherhood dialogue. Maybe not a master piece, but I agree that other dialogue like the main quest, the companions, and the thieves guild were pretty annoying and badly written. Good thing we have mods.

[JanusForbeare]

Good thing we have mods.

 

Yeah... too bad the CK is also riddled with bugs, though. :(

[Relativelybest]

Delphine: We know about Paarthurnax.

 

Me: Yeah, turns out he's a dragon. He's cool, though.

 

Delphine: Never the less, we don't need him anymore. So we'd like you to kill him.

 

Me: *snort*

 

Delphine: ?

 

Me: No, sorry. Do go on.

 

Delphine: Like I said, he used to be Alduin's right hand and he did a lot of bad things, so you need to go up there and kill him for us.

 

Me: Pffffwahahahahahaaa!

 

Delphine: What's so funny?

 

Me: No, it's just... That like Luke Skywalker being asked to assassinate Yoda. Or Frodo Baggins being told he has to stab Gandalf.

 

Delphine: I don't know who those people are.

 

Me: Nevermind. Meta joke.

 

Delphine: So you'll do it?

 

Me: Hell no. What are you crazy? He's the only dragon in the world who'll talk to me without trying to set me on fire.

 

Delphine: He already betrayed Alduin. We can't afford to let him betray us as well!

 

Me: Sure we can. If he turns evil, then I take him down. Cause and effect, woman, it's simple physics.

 

Delphine: Well, until you kill him, we won't provide you with any more help.

 

Me: Oh no. I can't possibly manage without you and the old man helping me out. Whatever will I do? This ultimatum has really put me in a tight spot!

 

Delphine: Are you.... Are you being sarcastic?

 

Me: Sarcastic? What's that? I don't know what the word means!

Edited July 14, 2012 by Relativelybest

[Andreas1337]

I enslaved him as pack-dragon :devil:

[SFBryan18]

Really funny stuff Relativelybest. Nicely said.

[nofear88]

I didnt kill him, loved his wisened aged look and cool deep voice + with an Argonian character I got, I pretended that Paarthurnax was his Daddy.... some strange little kinship there...

[sukeban]

I dunno ya'll. I'm probably in the minority here (not gonna read ~40 pages of thread) who didn't think that Paarth was actually that sick at all. My main reason for keeping him alive was to spite Delphine because, really... she is insufferable (seriously, where is Baurus when you want him?).

 

There is absolutely no way that I am trusting Paarth to keep a lid on it now that the "big bad" has been removed and he is hypothetically free to rally the dragons to his side. Do I think that this is likely? No, probably not, which is why I probably would leave him alone even if Delphine were an amazing and persuasive character. I mean, if Paarth was scared of Alduin and I, as the Dragonborn, just laid Alduin low, then Paarth is certainly not going to make a move whilst I am still alive. Rather, he would likely wait until I had passed away and he was free to dominate all the rest of the feeble human beings (and elves and beastmen). So I would be instructing all the Skyrim smiths to get to work crafting more Akaviiri katanas for the Stormcloaks and/or the Legion, useful both in the upcoming brawl with the Thalmor as well as any potential jackmoves by the dragons.

 

Apart from the dragons, however, the Blades are absolutely useless (so sad compared to past games). Genocide? I mean yeah, sure... whatever. The dragons wanted the same thing when they enslaved the humans, except that they were too vain and needed other people left alive to praise them. Had they been content with just hearing fellow dragons suck up, I am sure that they would have driven men to extinction. Dragons are cool, I guess, so I wouldn't want them all killed off. Any that were continuing to attack non-Dragons though... no mercy.

 

I also don't have too much love for the Greybeards either. So high and mighty and isolated, they seem a pack of elderly ostriches sticking their collective heads in the sand. So the Nords got routed by the Dunmer even when they had the Thu'um? Try harder next time instead of blaming it on The Voice and de facto outlawing a perfectly fine tool. Should only be used to praise Kynareth? Oh please. Last I remembered, dragons were using it to barbeque me and I don't particularly think that dragons DGAF about Kynareth. Nords, if they had their act together, should set up primary schools where all young Nord kids learn The Voice. With the Thalmor brawl looming on the horizon, they should go ahead and attempt to teach it to everybody. Then, when the Thalmor battlemages come at them with that fireball nonsense, the Nordic hordes can use the "Become Ethereal" shout, close the distance, and make them all sniff the glove. To do otherwise is to fight with one hand behind one's back.

Edited July 15, 2012 by sukeban

[Cobwebmaster]

I dunno ya'll. I'm probably in the minority here (not gonna read ~40 pages of thread) who didn't think that Paarth was actually that sick at all. My main reason for keeping him alive was to spite Delphine because, really... she is insufferable (seriously, where is Baurus when you want him?).

 

There is absolutely no way that I am trusting Paarth to keep a lid on it now that the "big bad" has been removed and he is hypothetically free to rally the dragons to his side. Do I think that this is likely? No, probably not, which is why I probably would leave him alone even if Delphine were an amazing and persuasive character. I mean, if Paarth was scared of Alduin and I, as the Dragonborn, just laid Alduin low, then Paarth is certainly not going to make a move whilst I am still alive. Rather, he would likely wait until I had passed away and he was free to dominate all the rest of the feeble human beings (and elves and beastmen). So I would be instructing all the Skyrim smiths to get to work crafting more Akaviiri katanas for the Stormcloaks and/or the Legion, useful both in the upcoming brawl with the Thalmor as well as any potential jackmoves by the dragons.

 

Apart from the dragons, however, the Blades are absolutely useless (so sad compared to past games). Genocide? I mean yeah, sure... whatever. The dragons wanted the same thing when they enslaved the humans, except that they were too vain and needed other people left alive to praise them. Had they been content with just hearing fellow dragons suck up, I am sure that they would have driven men to extinction. Dragons are cool, I guess, so I wouldn't want them all killed off. Any that were continuing to attack non-Dragons though... no mercy.

 

I also don't have too much love for the Greybeards either. So high and mighty and isolated, they seem a pack of elderly ostriches sticking their collective heads in the sand. So the Nords got routed by the Dunmer even when they had the Thu'um? Try harder next time instead of blaming it on The Voice and de facto outlawing a perfectly fine tool. Should only be used to praise Kynareth? Oh please. Last I remembered, dragons were using it to barbeque me and I don't particularly think that dragons DGAF about Kynareth. Nords, if they had their act together, should set up primary schools where all young Nord kids learn The Voice. With the Thalmor brawl looming on the horizon, they should go ahead and attempt to teach it to everybody. Then, when the Thalmor battlemages come at them with that fireball nonsense, the Nordic hordes can use the "Become Ethereal" shout, close the distance, and make them all sniff the glove. To do otherwise is to fight with one hand behind one's back.

 

Well at least you have embraced the principles of the game which is, in my view, to eliminate everything that represents a potential threat. General Tullius does it. Ulfric does it so why not continue? The Greybeards, Paarthurnax, and the Blades, all have a very narrow and prejudiced view of what needs to be done. It's called crisis management. In Skyrim no-one wants to live with their neighbour. Talk about sectarian wars!

 

StayFrosty05 has the right of it. It is very badly written in terms of role playing . There is no forseeable near future for either Skyrim or Tamriel that does not involve sudden death or a descent into barbarism and/or slavery. At a commoner level I guess that they have limited choices. Slavery under Alduin, the Altmeri, or Ulfric. Or maybe the Dragonborn has the vision and will to unite everyone? Can't see it in the script!. If you are looking for fleshed out roles for characters and maturely developed plot lines then Bethseda's TES is no longer the place to be. However it is still plenty fun at a basic kickass/dungeon crawl/exploration level and the graphics are stunning. Modders are busy doing what they did for Oblivion, though because of the bugs I can't see it being as good an end result.

 

Nice point about educatiing the Nords though how they managed to even read or write in the first place is a little beyond me. Guess that was down to the Empire!. As for Nords co-operating with each other for long enough to allow the building of training schools and educational establishments? (They all hate mages) That's a bit like asking the Scottish clans to forgo all their blood feuds.