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Beth messed up our elves!


Lehcar

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I beg pardon for making such a crude analogy, but complaining about not being able to get the elves to look the way you want them would be like getting upset that none of your Asian friends are blond and you really like blond hair. Without external factors like dyes/bleaching (read: mods) or some combination of a dozen recessive genes or something like that (managing to create a character that JUST inches into your boundary of being aesthetically pleasing), they will never be blond. Stop trying to change the fact and say we should all accept it, that's simply not a defining feature of their race. In TES the Mer races are different from humans. Period.

 

No amount of 'tweaking' will change the fact. You are welcome to mod it, I'm not denying you that right, so don't go on with the whole bit about "IT'S OUR GAME BETHESDA PROVIDES THE TOOLS WE CAN PLAY HOW WE WANT HOW DOES THAT AFFECT YOU", etc.; That is not my point of contention at all. Please don't say, though, that Bethesda somehow 'messed up' because you can't get the look you want... because it is not what the Mer should look like. No amount of complaining about "ugh i can't even play an elf because it looks so ugly" will change the fact that, well, some people in TES universe consider all Mer irrevocably ugly, and you are basically the same as those characters. But don't go saying that this means Bethesda should change the design, it simply means that you don't appreciate the inhumanity of these beings.

 

this is truth, if they are just gonna mod out the elves to be anime big bust characters and to have the male elves be as feminine as the women then they should just do that and not whine about bethesda not doing that.

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And within the context of the Star Trek universe the change in appearance was explained as a side effect to an attempted mass genetic-engineering progect gone wrong. As such, TRUE Klingons have browridges. Which still doesn't invalidate anything i said, as what characteristics of Mer, particularly Dunmer, do not in the least resemble a Klingon brow ridge.

 

Now, back to elves... Nah... theres really nothing left to say... I think the new design gives them a unique look, matches with the concept art regarding them, and helps convey the haughty personas the Mer are reknown for. It fits both within the imagery of the game, and with the social attitudes associted with the TES Elves. That said, i also think that the Falmer are expertly done and fit perfectly with their role, society and environment, infinately better than the idiotic Drow archaetype for underground elves.

 

To me, it boils down to a simple point. What serves the story? It's not a matter of beauty, its a matter of what characteristics best represent the races Bethesda is portraying. In that regards, i think they did a masterful job at the Elven redesign (or reboot, as it were). It may not serve the players interests in creating an attractive character, but it serves the Dunmer, Altmer, Bosmer etc. As a writer and an anthropologist, i not only agree with, but fully endorse this practice. While the players aesthetic preferances may be important, the story is what matters the most, particularly when it comes to RPG's, and the change helps that living story.

Edited by Lachdonin
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I'm going to step up on the ol' soap box and play devil's advocate here. I have read most all of the comments on this subject, simply because I really like Elves. I wish I could play one in this game, but I have my own perception of what an Elf would look like, and it is clear that all of you do to. This subject may go on for quite a while, and that is why I enjoy these forums so much.

 

Out of all this I have come to the simple conclusion that all of us are passionate about our Elves, and I think this is great! Many points have been brought up, some that I didn't even think about. An example would be the different off shoots or cultures of the Elven peoples, such as a Dark Elf, Forest Elf....etc. I take a particular interest is this facet because I am Native and I understand this. I just didn't put in context with Elves. I am only a single member of one tribe here in the states, yet there are many tribes, each it's own culture...so it is easy for me to relate how the Elves would have different cultures and looks for each clan, tribe, what have you. I admit this is why I took such a keen interest in playing as an Elf Warrior in DA Origins, I related to them and understood the story behind them.

 

As silly as this may sound, I have learned a lot out of this topic and I think everyone had some good comments, granted, some a bit more heated then others, but that's ok. Bottom line for the most part is..

 

We love our Elves !

 

Some have related their perception of the Elves with some examples of real life cultures, and this to is important...I certainly did, I just didn't realize it until this topic came up.

 

And, as I have said many times in here...each of us has our own perception in our minds what an Elf should look like, and for each of us, that is clearly important.

 

So don't loose that passion, Out of all the topics going in here regarding Skyrim, this one has been the most interesting and enjoyable topic, for me anyway. I applaud all of you for standing up and giving us your thoughts on the topic...well done. There is nothing like a good debate, fantasy or not.

 

Enjoy the game, have fun and I hope I have not bored anyone with any of my comments. :thumbsup:

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this is truth, if they are just gonna mod out the elves to be anime big bust characters and to have the male elves be as feminine as the women then they should just do that and not whine about bethesda not doing that.

 

More of the damned anime analogy, please change the record as this is getting ridiculous, you seem to be contributing nothing but trolling to what is otherwise quite a good discussion between different viewpoints. You obviously haven't read a single one of my posts properly, as I have quite clearly stated that I have never followed anime. My issue is that they have made the FEMALE elves look MALE, not that I want the male elves to look female. I like a clear distinction between the sexes to be there, and deplore the fact that Bethesda have crippled the face sliders so as to make it more difficult for this to be accomplished. I deplore the fact that Bethesda do not seem to know what the distinction between masculine and feminine features and suspect that they don't have too many women in their team. I would hate for them to be leaning towards the very limited character customisation of Two Worlds II (where you can only play as female with a mod), or the Gothic series where you have to play as a male.

 

Moreover, a number of us have also stated in this thread that we would not personally want to use some of the more exaggerated body mods (there is already a DMRA mod up!!!!) for any race, and my personal favourite would be something akin to Type 3, which has breasts no bigger (just better shaped) than the default Skyrim ones and would suit an elf, in my view. But if others do, it's THEIR game to do with what they want.

 

Meanwhile, I have made progress with my Altmer since I installed one of the mods that makes the lips more defined;-

 

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l255/janepreddy/TESV2011-11-2315-48-29-65.jpg

 

I'm beginning to like her now. Still got the chiselled features, and the haughty look, and I have quite deliberately chosen an eye mod that gives the elves different eyes from the humans. I think this is going to be an evil character, with those fierce amber eyes...

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The only Elves I'm truly disappointed of are the Dark Elves. Thier eyes are like a freaking blind bug. And yes, the wrinkles are horrible. The High Elves and Wood Elves are perfectly fine to me, but if they're bad in your opinion, I can respect that.
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The only Elves I'm truly disappointed of are the Dark Elves. Thier eyes are like a freaking blind bug. And yes, the wrinkles are horrible. The High Elves and Wood Elves are perfectly fine to me, but if they're bad in your opinion, I can respect that.

 

How are the eyes horrible though? Because their red? Thats part of their curse. And what's wrong with the wrinkles? Have you seen Morrowind? for the most part its ash wastes, swamps and volcanic mountains. Are you expecting Drow, with their silky skin, smooth features and unabashed beauty?

 

The Dunmer are a harsh, often brutal people who live in one of the most inhospitable lands in Tamriel. The Khajit have even commented that life is easier in their deserts than in Morrowind (And thats not considering, my and large, their slaves in Morrowind). The rougher, workn skin of the Dunmer reflects their homeland. It's supposed to be dry, cracked and pitted, and matches perfectly their surly, sometimes outright hostile attitudes.

 

As i said before, this is one of the choices which serves the character of the race more than the tastes of some of the players. As much as i can sympathise with the personal tastes of said players, i think it's more important to represent the nature of the various Mer.

 

And before anyone brings up Berniziah, she was something on an anomally within the Dunmer culture. You meet her in Daggerfall and Morrowind; Tribunal, and she acts nothig like other Dunmer, so the 'sultry, seductive' thing is all her. Then agian, she uses it as a tool to get her way, while a normal Dunmeri woman would jsut cut your heart out and show it to you...

Edited by Lachdonin
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My female Dunmer character took me hours to make. The only 'mod' I have installed is smooth females (because like others, I found wrinkles to be a bit over done). However, the female faces are now too smooth, some definition would still be nice. I'm not at home right now so can't upload a screenie, but I am very happy with the result. The sliders are not as fine as in Oblivion, but the presets are customisable to a degree beyond just switching out main features. It takes patience and a hulluva lot of time, but you can do quite a bit. I'll get a screenie up soon as to show what I mean.

 

I also have to say that ALL races seem to have become HD variants of their Morrowind selves, which is really nice. I was disappointed with the lack of individuality in Oblivion and the cartoony look, given the dark and torn histories of Tamriel -- just seemed a bit out of place to have the puffy, oddly coloured and child-friendly faces.

 

What would be nice, would be if Bethesda had included half-races. I'm sure their has been some interracial romances throughout the centuries. Had Beth done so, they could have pleased both camps of players, those wanting the diversity and true racial distinction and those who prefer aesthetically pleasing characters. Also, it would make for interesting in-game diversions and politics.

Edited by alkaloid27
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