Beth messed up our elves!

[ginnyfizz]

Lachdonin, that still doesn't demonstrate that Dunmer should be ugly, wrinkled little trolls. For Barenziah to prove attractive across the racial divide as she did, and be able to use her attractiveness as a tool to get her own way, suggests quite the reverse. And it's not just her, there are those two dashing rogues that I mentioned seducing the maidens in Pelagiad, both of them Dunmer. The girl who is the victim of one of them is a Breton. So male Dunmer are also considered attractive even by non Dunmer. Another factor suggesting that a wizened appearance is unlikely to be universal.

 

Volcanic ash/rock makes a helluva good exfoliant as it happens, I actually use a piece to make skin smooth...wouldn't surprise me a bit if the Dunmer had discovered pumice too since it would be all around them...

 

Seriously, people have been busting a gut since time immemorial to iron out their wrinkles. They don't like them, even though they cannot be held back indefinitely, unless you want to go wild on the plastic surgery. Myself, I prefer a jar of face cream from the supermarket.

[THEbloodymary777]

blah Edited November 23, 2011 by THEbloodymary777

[Bunik]

Myself, I prefer a jar of face cream from the supermarket.

 

I don't know why I just imagined a person with huge jar over her head with cream dripping all around. :D

 

Speaking of jars:

http://www.darklegacycomics.com/122.html

[Lachdonin]

Lachdonin, that still doesn't demonstrate that Dunmer should be ugly, wrinkled little trolls. For Barenziah to prove attractive across the racial divide as she did, and be able to use her attractiveness as a tool to get her own way, suggests quite the reverse. And it's not just her, there are those two dashing rogues that I mentioned seducing the maidens in Pelagiad, both of them Dunmer. The girl who is the victim of one of them is a Breton. So male Dunmer are also considered attractive even by non Dunmer. Another factor suggesting that a wizened appearance is unlikely to be universal.

 

Volcanic ash/rock makes a helluva good exfoliant as it happens, I actually use a piece to make skin smooth...wouldn't surprise me a bit if the Dunmer had discovered pumice too since it would be all around them...

 

Seriously, people have been busting a gut since time immemorial to iron out their wrinkles. They don't like them, even though they cannot be held back indefinitely, unless you want to go wild on the plastic surgery. Myself, I prefer a jar of face cream from the supermarket.

 

First off, i'm nost saying that Dark Elves CAN'T be attractive, jsut that the environment they come from is harsh and does not lend its self very well to soft features. I know for a fact that you don't have to have w wrinkled, wisened face, becase my Dunmer doesn't. Slide the complexion bar to the far left and you veritably look like a a teenager...

 

Anyway, point two... If you look at humans who are native to deserts, steppes and other dry areas with prodigeous amounts of wind (Sand and Ash storms are frequent in Morrowind) they almost universially have rought, almost leathery skin. It may be a good exfoliant, but either you toughen up do deal with it on a daily basis, or it strips the flesh from your bones.

 

As i said, this is (for me at least) all about the character of the race(s) and less about their attractivness. The wrinkles, cracked skin, perpetually furrowed brow and general unpleasent expressions on the Dunmer is part of that character. It meshes their unforgiving homeland with their almost homicidal personalities in an artistic representation. Read the book "Dunmer of Skyrim" to get a better idea of what a normal Dunmer acts like,

[RomeoJGuy]

this is truth, if they are just gonna mod out the elves to be anime big bust characters and to have the male elves be as feminine as the women then they should just do that and not whine about bethesda not doing that.

 

More of the damned anime analogy, please change the record as this is getting ridiculous, you seem to be contributing nothing but trolling to what is otherwise quite a good discussion between different viewpoints. You obviously haven't read a single one of my posts properly, as I have quite clearly stated that I have never followed anime. My issue is that they have made the FEMALE elves look MALE, not that I want the male elves to look female. I like a clear distinction between the sexes to be there, and deplore the fact that Bethesda have crippled the face sliders so as to make it more difficult for this to be accomplished. I deplore the fact that Bethesda do not seem to know what the distinction between masculine and feminine features and suspect that they don't have too many women in their team. I would hate for them to be leaning towards the very limited character customisation of Two Worlds II (where you can only play as female with a mod), or the Gothic series where you have to play as a male.

 

Moreover, a number of us have also stated in this thread that we would not personally want to use some of the more exaggerated body mods (there is already a DMRA mod up!!!!) for any race, and my personal favourite would be something akin to Type 3, which has breasts no bigger (just better shaped) than the default Skyrim ones and would suit an elf, in my view. But if others do, it's THEIR game to do with what they want.

 

Meanwhile, I have made progress with my Altmer since I installed one of the mods that makes the lips more defined;-

 

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l255/janepreddy/TESV2011-11-2315-48-29-65.jpg

 

I'm beginning to like her now. Still got the chiselled features, and the haughty look, and I have quite deliberately chosen an eye mod that gives the elves different eyes from the humans. I think this is going to be an evil character, with those fierce amber eyes...

 

Which of these chimps is male and female???

 

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/8/8726901_a5d8c3c286.jpg

http://www.angryharry.com/images/chimp_thinking.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/10/11/article-0-02F5FA4600000578-904_468x328.jpg

http://www.chimpworlds.com/images/chimp_facts.jpg

 

Elves/Mer are not humans..... Elves/Mer are not humans.... What you consider the differences between male and female from a anthropocentric view does not mean that other ethnicities/races have to fit those types of physical characteristics..... Seems to me probably stems from an underlying xenophobia.... These different races you can choose are entirely separate and should not be the silly puddy mess that was the oblivion character creation where everyone looked the same with different color skin.

[Deleted3158906User]

Meh, I like mine at least.

[FastBlackCat]

I beg your pardon? In the original Star Trek episodes Klingons looked like this:

 

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.startrek.com/legacy_media/images/200306/tos-027-the-klingon-kor/320x240.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.startrek.com/database_article/kor&h=240&w=320&sz=19&tbnid=dABpLF_UyMGLOM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=120&zoom=1&docid=fahtYWi23FKlLM&sa=X&ei=cmzMTsnnC8WoiQLQnfD0Cw&ved=0CDkQ9QEwAQ&dur=2125

 

See any brow ridges?

 

And within the context of the Star Trek universe the change in appearance was explained as a side effect to an attempted mass genetic-engineering progect gone wrong. As such, TRUE Klingons have browridges. Which still doesn't invalidate anything i said, as what characteristics of Mer, particularly Dunmer, do not in the least resemble a Klingon brow ridge.

 

 

To quote Wikipedia:

 

"As originally developed by screenwriter Gene L. Coon, Klingons were darkly colored humanoids with little honor, intended as an allegory to the Cold War tensions between the United States and the Soviet Union, though Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry did not aspire to any political parallels. With a greatly expanded budget for makeup and effects, the Klingons were completely redesigned in Star Trek: The Motion Picture (1979), gaining ridged foreheads that created a continuity error not explained by Star Trek canon until 2005 . . .

 

. . .In the original television series (TOS), Klingons were typically portrayed with bronze skin and facial hair suggestive of Asian peoples, and possessed physical abilities similar to humans (in fact, Coon's only physical description of them in his "Errand of Mercy" script is "oriental" and "hard-faced") . . .For Star Trek: The Motion Picture, the Klingons were retconned and their appearance and behavior radically changed. To give the aliens a more sophisticated and threatening demeanor, the Klingons were depicted with ridged foreheads, snaggled and prominent teeth . . .

 

. . .that Worf acknowledged the difference in appearances when the crew of Deep Space 9 returned to the 23rd century in the episode "Trials and Tribble-ations," but offered no explanation, saying merely, 'We do not discuss it with outsiders.'"

 

So, the first Klingons were metamorphed by a big movie budget into what you call "true" klingons. Don't get me wrong, I have an abiding affection for the whole Klingon mystique, but they never started out looking the way they do now.

 

And regardless of the fact that some don't see the likeness to Klingons, it's obvious from comments made in this thread that other people do think they resemble Klingons. What is probably triggering this comparison is the sheer cragginess of the Dunmer features. It's a matter of perception and interpretation, which is a process of the human brain to make sense of the world. It's like looking at cloud formations and one person sees a horse and another a human face. Right now, I'm leaning toward Romulans myself, although a friend that is also playing Skryim said they look like emaciated aliens, which is as good a description as any.

 

Now, back to the topic at hand, I'm amazed at the amount of passion this thread has created. As BarefootWarrior said, it's obvious we all love our elves, whether we like the way they look or not (and I'm definitely on the not side). Those of us who don't like their appearance will be able to eventually mod them, the Nine be praised. And no, I'm not an anime fan, although I do admire some of the artwork. And my favorite elves were the DAO elves and the Mystic Elf characters I created for Oblivion from Ren's mod.

Edited November 24, 2011 by FastBlackCat

[likeitsillegal]

Romeo makes a very good point. Elves are supposed to look alien to us. It's taking racial perceptions to the extreme.

 

Also, Alka, there have been half-races in TES before. But as I recall, the offspring take their physical properties from their mother. So if you had an elf woman and a Nord man, the child would come out looking like an elf.

[ginnyfizz]

Elves/Mer are not humans..... Elves/Mer are not humans.... What you consider the differences between male and female from a anthropocentric view does not mean that other ethnicities/races have to fit those types of physical characteristics..... Seems to me probably stems from an underlying xenophobia.... These different races you can choose are entirely separate and should not be the silly puddy mess that was the oblivion character creation where everyone looked the same with different color skin.

 

Trolling again. You are accusing me or what amounts to racism and I am not going to stand for that. I live in a multi ethnic community and find that in each ethnic group, the males and females look distinctly different. It's as simple as that. It beggars belief that you and likeitsillegal are now playing the race card just for me pointing out the fact that males and females, and I am talking about HUMANOID races, after all the elves are humanoid though not HUMAN, look different. Really, that is utterly ridiculous and nothing more than an attempt at troublemaking. It's also defamation.

 

I repeat, those of us who do not like what Bethesda has done with the elves are prepared to mod the features we don't like when the CS comes out, those who do like them can leave them as they are. It's beyond dispute that Beth have crippled the chargen and limited the sliders so let's hope a UI mod can put them back in, something similar happened with Dragon Age. So far as I am aware, it is not compulsory to worship everything that Bethesda do, and some of us don't.

[alkaloid27]

Alka, there have been half-races in TES before. But as I recall, the offspring take their physical properties from their mother. So if you had an elf woman and a Nord man, the child would come out looking like an elf.

 

Thanks, I wasn't aware of that. It would come out looking like an elf, so resembling an elf, but with Nord abilities? I think it's a good prospect for a mod. Say, the player as a half-race being from a Cyrodiil orphanage, in Skyrim looking for their birth parents... nice twisty turny quest-line that reveals some long forgotten prophesy that the Dragonborn would be the offspring of said races etc etc.

 

In any case, my original comment is still a good one, I think. Bethesda could have included half-races with mixed physical and racial attributes -- in fact, if I were to mod the races of Skyrim, I would try to consider player preference and rather than overrwite or replace any specific race, I would create an additional or alternative version in the form of a half-race in order to preserve lore and retain a playable mod for players who do like the vanilla elves/orc et al but would also like the choice of an 'aesthetically pleasing' character.

 

Personally, I've always wanted to be an orc female, one that kirk would do. But never mind certain elements like the brow or teeth, they always end up looking rather 'unfortunate' -- if I can't connect with my character, I can't play with him/her.

 

PS, I tried to take a screenie, but instead it print screen creates a 'testcamera path' folder?!? Will try again :(