Beth messed up our elves!

[AltmerLover1313]

I agree with all of those that say they like the elves mainly because they looked like the ones from morrowind. I was really off put from the obilivion elves as they had just looked to ugly for me, I had always leaned towards the morrowind-style of elves because they had made them interesting and not dull like the above game mentioned.

Kudos to you. :thumbsup: I don't think the Mer in Oblivion look ugly, just that they don't look serious and cartoonish. You could make an attractive one in the creator, but they are just plain awesome and beautiful in Skyrim. The Mer looked great in Morrowind, it's just a few different and better laid out faces would have been nice, lol.

[jawsofhana]

I can only hope, Bethesda will never take it serious, this beautifying mania some of you have here ,with the idealised, animeish all-smooth and clean characters..

 

But then i am someone who would never change morrowind's blocky heads either...Oblivion's characters were ridicoulus in every way possible..They looked like puffed, high-grown kids..

Finally in Skyrim they both look unique and technically advanced. And Dunmers Rock (Y).

 

Aaaand the record got stuck again. Before trotting out your anime mantra and trolling other people, check your facts and check previous posts. I stated that I do not either read or watch anime, have come across it only in passing and would have no idea what an anime elf looks like.

 

As someone who knows very well what an ordinary female face looks like (in my mirror every day) I have a major issue with the masculinisation of the features on the Dunmer in particular and have quite clearly stated that. I have often thought similar things when looking at some of the race mods and female game saves for Oblivion as well as for Skyrim - so often the chins and jaws were just WRONG. But at least with Oblivion you had the option to do something about the puffy cheeks and you could still make elves look like elves, I used - still do - the modified HeadHuman mesh from Robert's resource for OB, let's take a look at one of my OB Elves by way of comparison;-

 

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l255/janepreddy/Oblivion2011-06-2420-11-21-34.jpg

 

That is actually a Dunmer copy race with a different texture applied. In game she actually looked much more chiselled and had clearly sculpted cheekbones, and I could adjust not only the height but also the degree of concave/convex, same with the jaw and chin. I raised the outer corner of the eyebrows to give a slanting elven eyed look and could do a lot of work on the bridge of the nose to avoid thatflattened, smacked in the face look.

 

In Skyrim, I do not have that wide range of options.

 

That is a modded game. Which makes your point invalid. Oblivion elves were just as, or even uglier than the Skyrim ones. The ones in Skyrim are also true to the lore. Unlike the misfits from Oblivion.

[ginnyfizz]

Lore? Bethesda don't stick to their lore from one game to the next.

 

Barenziah, back in Daggerfall days, (and for that matter her daughter Morgiah, both Dark Elves), and continuing through the Morrowind and Oblivion in game books and "Lore" were depicted as stunningly beautiful, in Barenziah's case enough to appeal to other races. Which she wouldn't do as an unmodded Skyrim type Dark Elf. The Bretons were described in Daggerfall as tall and fair skinned, but by Oblivion and Skyrim had become very small of stature.

 

Now my Oblivion elf there has modded textures, Bethesda's vanilla textures were appalling for Oblivion. But I had a full battery of chargen sliders in Oblivion. The point is that for Skyrim, the face sliders have been crippled so that we can get in beards, scars and warpaint, but we cannot shape noses and chins and jaws properly. So you can only do so much with even the fantastic modded textures that we do already have for Skyrim.

[Lachdonin]

Lore? Bethesda don't stick to their lore from one game to the next.

 

Barenziah, back in Daggerfall days, (and for that matter her daughter Morgiah, both Dark Elves), and continuing through the Morrowind and Oblivion in game books and "Lore" were depicted as stunningly beautiful, in Barenziah's case enough to appeal to other races. Which she wouldn't do as an unmodded Skyrim type Dark Elf. The Bretons were described in Daggerfall as tall and fair skinned, but by Oblivion and Skyrim had become very small of stature.

 

First off, let me say that i still agree 100% on the fact that the choices on the sliders for Skyrim are limited to a distressing degree. I can only hope that, when we DO get the Construction Set, we ill be able to expand on options within the system rather than have to create entirely new race choices to do so.

 

Second, Bethesda is actually pretty good at keeping to their lore. Admitedly, the Breton thing has been skewed a bit, but i tend to attribute that to the overall effects of the Dragon Break caused by the Warp in the West completely changing the genepool...

 

Third, Barenziah, again, was something of an anomaly amongst Dunmer. However, her and other Dunmer like her are what most of the world experienced of Dark Elves because of the insular nature of Morrowind Dunmeri culture. Its the same as how most people assume the !kung (Yes, the ! is supposed to be there) are primitive savages who have to scrape by to survive. The experiences caused by minor transient populations tend to flavor the overall perception of a culture, even when it may not represent it at all. In Morrowind we are given a more authentic Dunmeri experience, and its a rough, unpleasent and in many cases savage existance. As such, i don't view the change as Bethesda ignoring their own lore, but rather differances in cultural groups deepening the lore. In Oblivion, most of the Dunmer are, again, members of the same transient population which caused that particular social image, and thus represent Barenziah more accurately. However, in Skyrim we once again have a core Dunmer population, mostly refugees from Morrowind, who are more characteristic of central Dunmeri culture.

 

I'd also point out that 'beauty' is highly subjective, and exotic traits are often popular. My friends swear Asian women are the best looking lass's on the planet. I don't see it. Give me an irish redhead anyday. As it is, you can create mildly attractive women of every race using the basic vanilla settings. Not gorgeous, not even beautiful, but mildy attractive. I think the lack of beautiful women is more a limitation of the sliders than a problem with the design. I would have liked a little more quality in exchange for a touch of quantity... Would it be so bad to have a handful of generic dungeons if it meant good character generation and some decent dialogue?

[FordPerfect]

Third, Barenziah, again, was something of an anomaly amongst Dunmer.

 

Not really, except in being Queen. If you read the books (lore) in the games you'll find young Dunmer women (at least) are supposed to be very beautiful and promiscuous. It's a racial trait.

[Lachdonin]

Third, Barenziah, again, was something of an anomaly amongst Dunmer.

 

Not really, except in being Queen. If you read the books (lore) in the games you'll find young Dunmer women (at least) are supposed to be very beautiful and promiscuous. It's a racial trait.

 

Well, again, beauty is highly subjective. As for their promiscuity, that could be a constant, it wasn't something that was really explored in Morrowind, so i generally assume that its there. Still, Barenziah spent most of her life outside Morrowind. She, and other travelers like her, are an overwhelming minority of Dunmer, and the temperments and personalities reflected in the books is directly counter to what you see in Morrowind proper. This makes them social anomalies, but ones which are highly represented within the non-Morrowind Dunmer population. Think of it as the differance between people from Maine and California. Both are 'American' but they have wildly different common personalities, cultural practices etc.

[Lehcar]

Morrowind elves did not look like they leaped out of a Star Trek fanfic. Edited January 9, 2012 by Lehcar

[Lachdonin]

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljpmauKCv21qdjg0ko1_250.jpg

 

http://elderscrolls.neoseeker.com/w/i/elderscrolls/thumb/4/41/Dunmer_official.jpg/180px-Dunmer_official.jpg

 

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/1/17166/1259074-mw_01cb.jpg

 

http://images.wikia.com/elderscrolls/images/9/9e/Altmer_Concept.jpg

 

All these images are concept art. Thus, are representations of the characteristics of the Elves which the artitsts deem important, rather than what they can represent using the game engine.

 

The first 3 are all Dunmer. Even in the most humanistic one (from Oblivion) they all show heavy brow development

 

In the 4th, an Altmer (Again from Oblivion, i beleive) you have the enlongated head and the arched eyebrows.

 

http://www.toptenz.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/romulan-789281.jpg

 

Now, there ARE similarities with the Romulans. No one can deny that. But there is a major differance in three traits.

 

First, romulan eyebrows are not arched, they are linear.

Second, Mer facial features are more exagerated. Sharper cheekbones, more pronounced jaw, more angled eyes etc.

Third, Mer skulls tend to be more vertically drawn

[Astaril]

I love number 2 and 4 of that concept art, compairing that with the elves in game I think it is something about the eyes they have got wrong in Skyrim, they have made them too big and bug like. While the face and ears of the elves in game are elongated it is much softer in the art and they are less gaunt. I really wish they looked like these pictures, especially in the eyes.

 

I don't l ike picture number 3, this is too much like the old Sylvanas Windrunner fromm wow. I am glad they didn't go down this route.

 

I think it is the distict brow that is making people feel the star trek connection, even though there are slight differences as you rightly point out. I wonder if it is a case of it being such a strong feature on a face that you just see "pronounced brow" and the eye looks over the small detail of difference. If you get what I mean? Its not easy to explain what I mean in text. :confused:

[Lachdonin]

I admit that the Mer in Skyrim are almost anorexically gaunt. If those cheeks were any more sunken, you'd be able to make out teeth.

 

And yes, i do know what you mean by the brows causing people to make very broad corelations between ideas. Its particularly previlent when your dealing with memory, and when you have pictures in front of your its easier to notice the differance. For instance.....

 

http://www.gamebanshee.com/morrowind/races/darkelffemale.jpg

 

http://images.wikia.com/oblivion/images/0/0a/TypicalDunmer.jpg

 

http://anearthlinginskyrim.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/jenassa.jpg

 

You can notice, when you have all three designs in the same window, similarities between the three. However, the Skyrim resembles the Morrowind more closely.

 

 

 

*Edit; Changed the last pic to one thats a little larger... Its hard to find pictures of Dunmeri women on google..

Edited January 9, 2012 by Lachdonin