Lets talk about sex....in Skyrim

[Modslave]

Now I'm not going to specifically run any mods in previous Bethsoft titles down intentionally.

 

But lets talk about sex in modding. Because if theres one thing that Bethsoft games and some other modifiable games have in common its even if there isn't any actual hanky panky right out of the box, the modders put it there eventually.

 

Contextual Sex

 

Not to be confused with "consensual sex" but, contextual sex is the difference, really, between art and pornography. And while pornography has its place and there are certainly thousands of players that enjoy a little porn in their mods, contextual sex is sex that makes sense in a given environment, story line, or interpersonal scenario.

 

CD Projekt was very good about applying contextual sex pretty much right out of the box in the Witcher and the Witcher 2, the Witcher was far less graphic about it but it was obvious it was going on....and while contextual its actual representation of it was more comedic in many respects due to its toned down nature.

 

In The Witcher 2, we ended up with more graphic contextual sex which was actually quite well done and while it didn't throw breasts and penises in your face, it presented sex in a contextual and sensual manner that gave the acts some measure of meaning.

 

The mod community for Dragon Age: Origins, was also very good about taking the romantic scenes between various love interests in that game and playing them out a bit more graphically, while not losing the art of contextual, romantic sensuality in the pursuit of digital sex.

 

Now previous to Skyrim, Bethsoft games weren't really built well for contextual sex. The script engine for Gamebyro in Morrowind/Oblivion/FO3/FONV was a bubble gum and bailing wire mess and the ability to naturally animate scenes just wasn't there. So what you ended up with in these titles was fairly robotic, mechanically functional "sex" but not sex that actually did anything to improve the canvas of the game it was painted on to.

 

Skyrim presents modders of this stripe with a whole new opportunity, as the Radiant AI system and new Radiant Dialogue and scene system gets into our hands we'll have the ability to build completely relevant contextual scenes that actually add depth and value to the title itself. Rather than a simple manipulation of animations in conjunction with dialog interaction, a talented scripter and an animator could take sex in Skyrim to the level of art, just like Skyrim has taken The Elder Scrolls to the next level of art.

 

So...think it over, modders, want to be modders, scripters, as we wait for the Creation suite of tools to drop.

 

What would you rather have? Meaningless pixel sex on demand? Or seducing the follower/companion/Jarl/whoever of your choice in detailed....Radiant driven scenes that actually have context in regards to your further interactions with that person, and how they interact with you afterwards.

 

I know I'll be picking at the Radiant scene/AI system myself quite a bit once we get the Creation Kit, to see what the top end of possibility is.

 

But isn't that what we should shoot for, as modders? The absolute top end of what is potentially possible with the engine base Bethesda gives us?

 

So again, no knocking the work of mod developers who have dealt in sexual content over the years. Just putting it out there, that functional doesn't exactly equal artistically impressive. Just cause you can slap a couple model meshes together in a 30 second animated loop doesn't mean you've improved the title you added it to.

 

Sex in games is probably one of gamings most contested and demonized issues. I think as mod developers, and of course, mod users, that we need to think about what it would take to make sexual mods more like art. Luchaire got it right, in Dragon Age: Origins, especially with giving varying degrees explicitness for download, allowing users to decide, for themselves, where they believe sex and art meet at a cross road.

 

Bethesda raised the bar when they put out Skyrim. We should do the same, when we decide to polish off the "mature" parts of it that they simply hint at.

[huntsman2310]

well done sir, you are most eloquent, you are absolutely correct.

[Deleted2986598User]

A well presented, thought out post about sex?

 

*mindblown*

 

I fully agree on your points.

[necKros]

Gratuitous sex mods are easy, and what you propose ain't. That's the reason why there will always be more porn oriented mods than romantic, context driven ones. That said, I find the latter much more interesting and worth working at, and I'm sure there will be plenty of modders that will agree. It is important to note that I endorse both styles, since I find them perfectly compatible: One exists purely for aesthetics, and the other is there for immersion.

[LukeSkyrimmer]

romantic sex > lustful sex

[Dan3345]

I agree with all of this.. I tend to avoid sex mods like the plague for the reasons that are:

1. they are absurd.

2. they are meaningless

3. it always feels like rap to me. Sure you could potentially ask the person, but since their is no relationship behind it, and you don't even have to really know the person in previous mods it just felt so awkward and out of place.

 

A mod that fixed these things would be good, but definitely a challenge.

[Adeno]

I like the idea of having to romance someone before they finally give in. Maybe we'll see how a "Dragonborn" was made.

[Lachdonin]

From an artistic perspective, i can understand and agree with this. From a practical, ethical and rational perspective, i have to dissagree. You always run a serious risk when you make things too immersive, and i feel that this type of mod would be crossing the line. A deeper courtship process, some more dialogue to make romance at least a passing concept, and thats it. I persoanlly feel that anything that requires a player to sit there and secude a digital character is pushing the limit of what i view as responsible game design. Again, i can apreciate the artistic and immersive qualities of it, but then again i can apreciate the artistic qualities fo a serial killer... Doesn't mean i think either are a good idea.

[rsanagustin]

I absolutely, totally agree...though...I do believe the nature of Skyrim itself, its setting, from spoken words from previous Elder Scrolls games and even the current one..."Life is short."...not saying "Make it into Porn!", but it would be a world rife with loveless, one night trysts in a land where, as one character put it, "Life is short in Skyrim. And dangerous."...though of course, things might have changed for the more conservative in the 700 years since oblivion/morrowind. Though I doubt it, considering courtship as it is is "Your single? Lets get married and make viking babies!" Irregardless, a strong historical presence, especially prior to the 21st/late 20th century, is missing. Prostitutes. Im having difficulty imagining why Bethesda left them out, considering their pervasive (though justified) presence in New Vegas. Did it seem to like anyone else Bethesda was trying to absolutely avoid any sort of controversy whatsoever in regards to sex/nudity, considering the absence of prostitution and even the more recent "Fade to Black" sex scene implemented in the two most recent, previous bethesda RPG's? Edited November 23, 2011 by rsanagustin

[GodofPeace]

Nice arguments there. But even before thinking about contextual sex you should explore the relations between player and npcs so that there is a an actual interest for their story, personalities, background, etc, like the witcher series or the bioware games are doing.

 

After all, your followers, companions, or whoever else, have barely no background, personality or interests. Like Lydia for exepemple who is just there to serve you.... and that's it, and I was actuaclly interested to know exactly what where her opinions, how did she got where she was, or how she felt facing quite BIG threaths to her personal life having no say in the matter.... in a way she felt like a slave forever bound to her unpaid duties, and that's just wrong.

 

But there was also Uthgerd who seemed deeper having anger issues and ressentment towards the companniones, but do we hear a single word when we enter said group, or when we find out their secret, or when she finds out who you are and your importance, or any other big event? No, no she doesnt say anything, there is no lines, no dialogue ... nothing besides the initial conversation, leaving her character quite unfulfiling.

 

And of course this are just two examples, there are much more, female, male, follower, shopkeeper, bard, and so many others who feel empty and wasted. There are exceptions of course, the characteres from main quests and some (some) jarls seemed quite deep and well made.

 

One could say that the game is ruled by the "quantity better than quality" rule, which is fine in itself but I guess bioware games made me expect too much out of character development and the way we interact with said characters. Not that those games perfected the mechanism, there is still much to improve in character interaction in games, so if anyone is interested to give it a go, please say so since this ideia seems quite good.

 

And sorry about grammar errors, english is not my first language.