MightyZ0G Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 too many stormcloak supporters in this thread haven't paid attention to the NPCs in Skyrim.the Empire allowed Talos worship and the Thalmor only came into Skyrim to uphold the White Gold Concordant because of the civil war.the Empire is already gearing up for war against the Thalmor (finish the civil war for the Empire and Tulius hints very heavily that war with the Dominion is the Empires priority) and it is really only the Stormcloak rebellion that is preventing them from tearing up the W/G Concordant. Talos is used as an excuse by Ulfric yet the High King that he killed openly worshipped Talos in Solitude and there are shrines to Talos in Whiterun and Markarth (both of which are Imperial cities) and Ulfric's motives seem to be for personal reasons rather than for the good of Skyrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beas7ie Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Is anyone else here upset that you HAVE to choose a side if you get involved in the civil war? I would love to have an option to be able to broker an alliance or at least a truce between the Empire and Stormcloaks and have them focus on fighting the REAL enemy which is the Thalmor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFBryan18 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Without reading any of this thread or giving an explanation... Stormcloaks are way better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vinh834 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Heil Ulfric. I mean Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) Without reading any of this thread or giving an explanation... Stormcloaks are way better. Without reading any of this thread or giving an explination... Gophers are really Jesus in disguise. The differance between Knowlege and Opinion is, one leads to understanding, the other ignorance. I've read a number of your opinion pieces, Bryan, and i have to say, i am neither convinced by your 'evidence' nor by your deductive skills. You have repeatedly bludgeoned the extremely complex Imperial/Stormcloak dynamic into what i can only call 'American Revolutionism'. The facts, as they stand, paint both sides the same colour. There is no right or wrong, and no one is 'Way Better'. It is a conflict of ideals and priorities, bogged down in petty politics and personal ambition. The Stormcloaks have no more or less moral justification for their cause than the Imperials. The whole thing boils down to what you feel is more important. Skyrim, or Tamriel. Edited July 9, 2012 by Lachdonin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFBryan18 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 So I guess I was supposed to also include IMHO for people who couldn't already see that? Opinion leads to ignorance? Is that a fact? I like hot chicks... does that make me ignorant? I purposely didn't read the thread, because I knew it was opinion and I really didn't feel like wasting time reading yours. Sorry that I dislike the Thalmor. "Damn faithless Imperials". :laugh: Why are you trolling my opinion in a thread that asks for an opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 So I guess I was supposed to also include IMHO for people who couldn't already see that? Opinion leads to ignorance? Is that a fact? I like hot chicks... does that make me ignorant? I purposely didn't read the thread, because I knew it was opinion and I really didn't feel like wasting time reading yours. Sorry that I dislike the Thalmor. "Damn Faithless Imperials". First off, the 'I like hot chicks' is very ignorant. Becase it gives no information as to A; why you like hot chicks, and B; what constitutes a hot chick. Had you said something along the lines of "I like big breasted, narrow waisted women with the IQ of Paris Hilton" the statement would have been informitive to the point of conveying a degree of knowlege, rather than offering absolutely nothing at all. Opinions are FORMED from knowlege, but without the explination of what knowlege was used in the formation of said opinion, you are only serving to any discussion into a childish s***-flinging contest. THAT serves only to spread ignorance and, frankly, stupidity. Now, it's one thing to have an opinion. Its quite another to try passing off your opinion as fact, without providing information as to why you beleive it. It is even worse to blatantly ignore evidence which contradicts your opinion out of an unwillingness to reevaluate your beleifs. Evidence such as the fact that there are several credable sources in-game which indicate that the Empire has no more love for the Thalmor than the Stormcloaks, for instance. Or the fact that other sources (such as Rikke and Tullius) clearly state that the Empire is preparing for another war with the Thalmor. Or the fact that Hadvir (i probably spelled his name wrong) is very clear about the fact that the Talos ban wasn't inforced until the Civil War started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFBryan18 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Using hearsay evidence to back up you facts is what's ignorant. Here's a fact: The Imperials were defeated by the Thalmor and forced to sign a treaty. Here is speculation: The Imperials plan to fight the Thalmor again. One is true, and the other is hearsay. Here's a fact: The Imperials allowed the Thalmor to ban Talos. Here is speculation: The Imperials don't like the ban on Talos. Again, one is fact, and the other is speculation. What you believe the Imperials want doesn't matter. What matters is that the people of Skyrim have a new king according to their tradition, and they no longer want to be ruled by the Thalmor or the Empire. Fact. So who is ignorant? My personal siding with the Stormcloaks doesn't need much information, because we are free to like what we want. I like the Stormcloaks and believe that they are much better. This is my opinion, and by saying it's ignorant, you are misusing the word ignorant and insulting me. I mean... If I say : "I like hot chicks because they turn me on", sure I explained why, but did I really need to? Your definition says I am obligated to explain what makes them hot, but I am not. I do not need to explain what a hot chick is to state my opinion. As the reader, you can use your imagination, and understand that whatever the definition of a hot chick, I like them. Same with the Stormcloaks... If you don't know my definition of why I like them, you can just use your imagination. And if I say "They are much better", again, you can use you imagination to why. Ignorance is to fact, and fact is never opinion. So please stop trolling my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Using hearsay evidence to back up you facts is what's ignorant. Here's a fact: The Imperials were defeated by the Thalmor and forced to sign a treaty. Here is speculation: The Imperials plan to fight the Thalmor again. One is true, and the other is hearsay. Here's a fact: The Imperials allowed the Thalmor to ban Talos. Here is speculation: The Imperials don't like the ban on Talos. Again, one is fact, and the other is speculation. First off, your assertions are factually wrong. The Imperials were not defeated, they fought the Thalmor to a stalemate. Second, if you want to argue that a top ranking military officer (general Tullius) clearly stating that the majority of the Empires forces are sitting on the borders of the Domminion preparing for another war is 'heresay' then... Well, i suppose that is your perogative. Third, and this is a more general complaint about what you keep passing for arguementation. Without reading any of this thread or giving an explanation... Stormcloaks are way better. This is not an assertion of beleif. You did not say "I think the Stormcloaks are way better". You stated your opinion as an afirmative fact. As for the claim i am trolling you, if trying to educate the masses in HOW to argue is trolling, i will gladly do it all day. If you're going to make your opinion known, back it up, or shut it up. Otherwise, you add absolutely nothing to the conversation, and are just trolling yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFBryan18 Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 People don't have to back up an opinion, they only have to back up facts. If I say "The Stormcloaks are way better", this is obviously a statement of opinion and your own fault if you can't see the difference between fact and opinion. Telling someone to shut up is just trolling. You think that you are making an argument, but matters of opinion can not be proven since opinion is not fact. So what you are doing is trolling my opinion. There is a difference. Argument would be fact, not opinion. I'm almost certain that the ToS allow people to make statement of opinion as long as they are not offensive. Since my opinion was a simple choice to believe that one side is way better, it couldn't be classified to such an extreme. So basically, you are trolling my opinion, not arguing fact. I'm done feeding you troll. I don't want to get into trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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