Skyrim, a classless society, and its problems.

[Shantih]

Compared to the thieves guild or dark brotherhood, which requires a high amount of skill and specialization, mages guilds have always been a little watered down.

 

I concur and I feel it was the same thing in Oblivion.

 

As such, i'm personally of the mind that Skyrim's system is a natural conclusion to the process.

 

[...]

 

Classes are an overly restrictive system used in many games, and i really feel that the TES system is infinately more natural and lends its self much better to the role playing experience.

 

I completely agree and this is a perfectly valid argument in defense of the new "classless" system.

[JimboUK]

I don't get it, how is this different from previous games?

 

 

It's actually radically different than Morrowind, which in my mind was the superior system. In order to gain entrance into a guild, you had to have a certian set of primary skills at certian levels.

 

For instance, the Fighters Guild had 8 primary skills. Short Blade, Long Blade, Axe, Blunt, Medium Armour, Heavy Armour, Marksman, Athletics. In order to get in, you hat to have two skills at least to 25, and a further three skills at 15 (Which, if i remember, was the starting level anyway).

 

Then to progress you needed to keep up in training those primary skills. To become Guild Master, for instance, you needed two skills at 70, and three at 50.

 

Personally, i miss that system, as it actualyl made a margin of sense. Then again, back in Morrowind there were no guild based quest archs (Save for background, such as unraveling the mystery of the Dwemer, and the competition between the Theives Guild and the Comma Tong) and they functioned more on a job by job basis.

 

Morrowind had it right, not only did you have to at least have some ability to get in you also had to build on that if you wanted to progress. To become Arch Mage you not only had to get your skills right up there but also the attributes that governed them, it's in sharp contrast to both Oblivion and Skyrim where these titles are handed to the player on a plate. There was no sense of achievement whatsoever when my warrior become Arch Mage in Skyrim, why would there be? I'd not earned it.

[Pineapplerum]

I thought about that in the game, too.

But other games are like that, also. Only you don't even have to use the specific skill to pass the test. LIke a warrior can kill an enemy with a hammer even though they're taking a test to be an elementist. You don't have to use any elementist skills at all, even though the teacher supplies you with elementist skills.

At least in Skyrim, you have to take the test with the related skill and you have to have something already on you that pertains to that skill or you don't pass the test. For me, as far as game playing goes, it was a little more realistic than with other games I've played.

And also, when applying to become something, you usually aren't equipped with too many skills in the said field anyway, which is why you're there as a student.

 

But I understand what you're saying. I have a crap load of magic skills from books I learned the skills from. I'm in no way interested in magic except for the restoration so I can cure myself and my companion but I ended up with a whole array of magic skills without even wanting or trying to obtain them. Not complaining, though. It beats having to level up in magic a whole bunch to to restore my health in a reasonable amount of time without needing too much magic juice. ( I forget what the stuff for the blue bar is called. ) So yeah, it is kind of too easy in some ways as someone who's not wanting to be majoring in magic but I hear others saying, that as mages, the skills just aren't powerful enough for them. Kind of a paradox.

[BGatot]

Exactly what I'm saying. I don't have a problem a warrior-type becomes the archmage if he/she has pretty decent magic skills too. But if he/she has basically rookie level magic skills and abilities, and he/she becomes the archmage, that seems strange. In this case Morrowind's system is much better. If not a skill/ability requirement to join like Morrowind, at least have certain skill/ability level as a requirement before they make you an archmage. The archmage can't even cast spells that a beginning student at the college could manage easily? And this requirement thing should be easily accomplished, after all some jarl have requirements you have to meet before they make you a thane, so that isn't impossible for programming point of view. Edited November 25, 2011 by BGatot

[Lachdonin]

The irony, of course, is back in the day people complained up one wall and down another about the guild system in Morrowind. "It's too hard" "I had to spend 6 hours leveling my lockpick just to get promoted" "blah blah blah". Personally, i think it was infantely more rational, and when i get the Construction set, i'm considering looking at mixing things up...

 

What i would LIKE to see is the return of mercenary nature of the Guilds, but maintain the story archs as a side point. By this, i mean, the core quests remain, but put in a bulletin board or something that issues various, ranking missions, with in-guild rankings determining what you have access to, and with skill requirements to advance as well as a certian volume of contracts completed. The programming may be beyond me, however...