Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn Reloaded

[Sabranic]

Shallina

Hi new year news for TOB. I managed to create and script all area until amkhetran included. It's fully playable and missing lips synch at the moment.

 

There is 2 exteriors area which i am not so happy with and may need further works the plain with the river and the marching mountain. I am really happy with how all the other area turned.

 

Awesome Shalllina! I am not normally so impolite but in your case I am going to have to insist on screenshots - otherwise it didn't happen.

I'd love to see your work

 

Perhaps one day... I personally dislike spoiler, I love discovering everything while playing and not before playing... I may post picture of "filler" area, or of the starting area.

 

I think the only one involved in SOAR who don 't have access yet to TOB stuff for feedback is PJ156

 

 

Hey folks -- quick question. I noticed that Kaedrin's stuff appears to be integrated into the first of these. Is this a case where you MAY use K's stuff while playing the module, or is it fully-integrated into NPCs, balancing, etcetera?

 

NWN2 rules are a small part of DnD 3.5 editions.

 

Kaedrin stuff is legit DnD 3.5 editions stuff and rules that weren 't implemented in NWN2.

 

Kaedrin's stuff also correct many bugs from Nwn2.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Sabranic

[Sabranic]

Shallina

 

SOAR and TOB have been decided to be done in one build.

 

At the moment I am the one assigned to Watcher keep, and absolutly nothing has been done with it for now, I'll do it after I'll complete TOB campaign.

 

 

PJ156

Oooooh, watchers keep, now there's a challenge

 

Not that I'm jealous, I get the Sahuagin city. That's going to be a lot of fun to build.

 

PJ

[Sabranic]

Shallina

Kaedrin's pack would come integrated with SOAR as it was done in BGR, I believe.
The reason for that is the all the custom feats, spells etc they would implement which would conflict if they are not merged with Kaedrin's pack.
Also BGR characters wouldn't be compatible with SOAR if it was removed.

By the way, Shallina, what I asked is not to change K's pack. I asked that his latest version be used.
Because in BGR there are actually two versions installed which cause conflicts and some bugs.

 

I use the last version of KAedrin which I can. It 's the lastest version of Kaedrin with older script and different one for a few of them.

 

He got bugs and script which don 't compile. But he removed the source files, so it 's impossible to do better than what was done in last BGR patch unless a rewrite it all, which I won 't.

 

 

Don't let me stop anyone from creating it, but I can think of some other spells and things in BG2 that are not available in NWN2. Making all of them work sounds like a lot more work than just adapting the combat to NWN2's rules.

 

Time stop will be in SOAR, but it won 't stop the grass, only the NPC, it was working in NWN and in NWN2 all NWN fnction exist.

 

The problem of timestop are mostly tied to multiplayer and persistant world. SOAR isn 't aimed in that direction, so it shouldn 't trouble the game engine.

 

I am currently thinking of doing "additional" spell for SOAR. implementing spell is actually really easy. The question is which spells ? they should fit SOAR, and not be overpowered so they won' t destroy the balance and challenge of the game.

 

 

The whole "Imprisonment spam" from Demiliches was an ADnD 2E thing. I believe they couldn't cast any spells there.

The 3E version is just an epic spellcaster (21HD Wizard).http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/demilich.htm

They can be given epic spells as well to make them more challenging and believable.
It's funny how no epic spellcaster NPC in 3E doesn't have Epic Spellcasting. I believe the reason for that is because the epic rules and spells are optional.

So really, the solution is to use the 3E version for any spellcasters (Irenicus, Amelyssan, Sendai, demiliches) and give them epic spells like the PCs.
Instead of Imprisonment, they can have Damnation, Vampiric Feast and Hellball.

Also the really high level casters (Irenicus, Amelyssan, Sendai) should have Automatic Quicken 1-9 (epic feats) to simulate Time Stop (even if it is implemented), Contingencies and other spells or abilities that sped up casting of spells (like Haste).
It's probably the closest way to implement the barrage of spells they liked to throw.

 

 

we are not implementing 2.0 rules we are sticking to 3.5. Irenicus will be a tought wizard but within 3.5 rules.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Sabranic

[Sabranic]

drechner

The Government district is now complete! It took a bit longer than I wanted, but there was a lot of new custom content that needed to be added. The biggest challenge here was to make it look nice and clean, but still interesting; it's a lot easier to add mesh density to "dirty" or run-down areas than neat, organized ones.

 

http://i.imgur.com/skvSKbH.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/4xRJr3W.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/0DrLB4Y.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/V2qLDnh.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/0u0Hc7U.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/AF7b2j0.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/REFPjIw.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/QLtDjAg.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/MIbCH6C.png

I actually meant to scale the bushes randomly a bit, but I totally forgot before I took the screenshots... I knew I was forgetting something

 

Actually, nearly all the trees still need to be scaled still. I'm avoiding using random SpeedTree seeds because it has a pretty large impact on performance, and the area is already pushing the limits.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Sabranic

[Sabranic]

drechner

 

Having just one variant version of plants you're putting in rows can't impact your performance in a significant manner. How many types of trees, bushes, and grass are you using?

One variation is probably okay, but the unique "trees" count is well over the recommended 5 by Obsidian already.

 

 

i have computer 'from that time'. trees are just not the problem. shadows are

so I don't know where they got "5" from .... go with the flow, drech.

 

Sure, shadows are expensive, but that doesn't mean that additional trees aren't. This isn't an "either/or" situation here

 

 

well, shadows are ~1000[0]x more expensive.

 

in the last area I made, every tree was deliberately given a different seed - nearly 50 of them. It wasn't a problem.

 

 

Placeable objects without LOD models are another very expensive thing, as users of the City Hak building placeables discovered. Much more expensive, I daresay, than SpeedTrees.

 

BTW, Drew, this may mean nothing to you, but I consider myself extremely conservative in terms of whether I use things I consider inefficient in this game. I've even been excessively careful with heartbeats and AI, and making sure I clean up things that would otherwise continue running after their purpose is over. From this perspective I say use the seeds.

 

 

- just like to point out that in some cases the right thing to do might well be use the same seed, like for that row of bushes in front of the statue.

 

/out

 

( sry, T. an opinion i guess)

 

I've already scaled all the trees and added a seed variation to the bushes; good idea!

 

 

 

OT,

 

it looks like a 'lawful' area, orderly & structured ... if you find the right seed, if it's a hedgerow of some sort - then next to no player is going to look closely enough to notice whether the leaves match, and the subtle unconscious effect might be to reinforce a 'lawful' orderly atmosphere: a well-trimmed hedge.

but i haven't toyed around with hedges

oh, and you ask why might 'they do that'? well, too much order in a lawful area might be there to conceal 'their' dark side .......

 

 

 

Okay, I agree that if someone found the right seed such that the tiling isn't obvious and it required looking closely at them to notice a pattern, then yes, that would be a good psychological use for such an effect.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Sabranic

[Sabranic]

drechner

 

From what I have learned from back before all you were here, the every seed added about a second of load up time for an area. It has nothing to do with the framerate, nor is there any logical software engineering reason why it would... the tree is already generated once in game. It's not being re randomized every frame.

 

Perhaps that will help focus the discussion because a lot of what was being said here is immaterial.

 

Whenever you introduce a new mesh, you increase mem usage and the number of draw calls, the former potentially causing perf issues (though unlikely in the case of NWN2) and the latter being the main cause of perf issues. I don't want to sound like a contrarian here, but to state otherwise is just flat-out wrong.

 

NWN2's biggest issue with GPU-related perf is the culling (or lack thereof) of static meshes. Therefore, introducing more meshes into a level will decrease performance, generally not because of the impact on mem usage but because of the increase to draw calls.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Sabranic

[Sabranic]

drechner

 

Dann-J, on 15 Jan 2015 - 7:36 PM, said:

True - but they're called 'speedtrees' for a reason. The format has been designed to be as low on resources to render as possible. They don't have actual model meshes of their own, but rather are generated on-the-fly by algorithms.

 

The algorithms create the mesh, which needs to be rendered (hence a draw call). SpeedTrees don't just magically show up on your screen (though that would be some amazing stuff!)

Also, the reason SpeedTree is used so frequently in the industry is not because of their performance necessarily, but because of the speed at which artists can create realistic, nice-looking trees with all sorts of built-in support for tweaking various aspects to fit the game/game engine.

Edited August 9, 2016 by Sabranic

[Sabranic]

PJ156

 

Can you tell what it is yet?

 

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e377/PJ156/2300_01_zps19c35f53.jpg

 

I've started to get a grip on what I can and can't do with this area and what it will look like in the end. It wont be a copy of the original but it will be recognizable.

 

This is the walkable area.

 

I've had a lot of help to get this far from Tchos and RJShae. None of the content they helped with is on the screen yet but it soon will be

 

PJ

 

Shallina

 

it 's an impressive start I am also super happy to see NWN2 modders with knowledge doing a lot of work for SOAR. Tonight i' ll see if i can upload screens of an area I made which isn 't in TOB

Edited August 9, 2016 by Sabranic

[Sabranic]

Shallina

 

here i think it was the first area made which will be kept for SOAR. It is around one year old and it is not scripted, but the walkmesh is fully functional. It's one of my favorite area from BG2.

 

http://i1008.photobucket.com/albums/af201/Shallina_NWN2/soar1_1.jpg

 

PJ156

Awww, I'm jealous now. I wanted Brynnlaw

 

Can't have all the fun stuff I suppose.

 

PJ

Edited August 9, 2016 by Sabranic

[Sabranic]

PJ156

here's a long way to go but I am staring to get a grip on how I want this area now and how I will "sanitize" it in terms of being able to believe it.

 

Tchos mentioned in a PM that Sahuagin cannot be more than an hour out of water so that got me thinking. The city is below the water but there is water within it. I see it as being in a dome but I cannot do a dome. I will have it within a curtain of water with water overhead. The player will be under the water but in a fish tank of sorts. The houses of the city will be submerged as they are in the original. Again, as in the original, the walk way will be at the very top of the city and pretty much the only dry place the Sahuagin hang out.

 

This is an exciting area to build. There's a huge risk that it will turn into a BCK box but we shall see. I have some more organic forms to break up the squareness.

 

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e377/PJ156/2300_02_zpsc62779f2.jpg

 

 

That sounds cool as a concept, but I wonder if it'll turn out as a graphical annoyance in the actual game.

 

You make a good point Ark, you might well be right. Therefore, when I have the draft down, will you try it out for me please?

 

I could have put too much movement in the background?

 

PJ156, on 31 Jan 2015 - 10:44 AM, said:

Tchos mentioned in a PM that Sahuagin cannot be more than an hour out of water so that got me thinking.

Close, but a little more complicated. Also, many of their special abilities and attacks require them to be swimming.

Water Dependent (Ex)

Sahuagin can survive out of the water for 1 hour per 2 points of Constitution (after that, refer to the drowning rules).

Those are the 3.5 rules, of course, and BG was using 2nd edition, so I rechecked The Sea Devils supplement, which gives them a flat limit of 4 hours (page 38) of no penalty out of water, after which they suffer penalties and need to start making saving throws similar to the drowning rules.

 

 

Close, but a little more complicated. Also, many of their special abilities and attacks require them to be swimming.

Water Dependent (Ex)

Sahuagin can survive out of the water for 1 hour per 2 points of Constitution (after that, refer to the drowning rules).

Those are the 3.5 rules, of course, and BG was using 2nd edition, so I rechecked The Sea Devils supplement, which gives them a flat limit of 4 hours (page 38) of no penalty out of water, after which they suffer penalties and need to start making saving throws similar to the drowning rules.

 

Ha, I was close

 

I doubt any of that is in the creature scripts, nor should it be. It does help me in the overall styling of the area though.

 

PJ

Edited August 9, 2016 by Sabranic