fraquar Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) In all fairness, Tullius can't say anything because the Thalmor are listening to every word he says, their Skyrim headquarters are firmly entrenched in Castle Dour like they are running Imperial operations (even though they have an Embassy "ummm, torture chamber" right down the road). Whether he wants to or not he has no choice, his only option is to give the "down with the scallywags" speech. Don't for a second confuse the above point with Imperial sympathy here........ It's no wonder Tullius whimpers "it's all the Thalmor's fault" when he meets his maker when the tables get turned. Dude, it's you own Imperial leaderships fault for letting them set up shop and grow roots like a Weeping Willow in Skyrim in the first place. Edited March 4, 2013 by fraquar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighkingUlfricStormcloak Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 @ Fraquar Thats exactly our point. The AD controls the Empire, but you know that as well as the rest of all of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kradus Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 @ Fraquar Thats exactly our point. The AD controls the Empire, but you know that as well as the rest of all of us. Not true. If the Thalmor had a say, the empire wouldn't be allowed to win the civil war, and muster their forces in Cyrodill. The empire is thwarting Thalmor plans right there, despite their indirect assistance of the stormcloak rebelion. Regardless of how much knowledge you think the Thalmor have, the Legions keep doing their thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayyyleb Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 @ Fraquar Thats exactly our point. The AD controls the Empire, but you know that as well as the rest of all of us. I get so tired of refuting this. -.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kradus Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 @ Fraquar Thats exactly our point. The AD controls the Empire, but you know that as well as the rest of all of us. I get so tired of refuting this. -.- They'll keep posting the same baseless arguments over and over, because they have a need to convince themselfs they're right. Where is his duplicity? What reason has he given us throughout the campaign to doubt his veracity? Where is the false humility? Everyone is aware he's going to be elected High King, including himself, but that fact doesn't make him scrap the process altogether. That's the point of an election. There's no point to an election if you replace the voters with your own supporters, by force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighkingUlfricStormcloak Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) The Empire does the same thing with the Jarls. Replace the Jarls with Jarls that will vote Elisif as High Queen because she will allow the Empire to walk all over her. She lets Ulfric do it to. The Thalmor want the civil war. It dwindles the resources of both sides equally. "As long as the civil war proceeds in its current indecisive fashion, we should remain hands-off." - "A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however, so even indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed." Thats from the dossier. The legions arent doing "their own thing" they are commanded by the Emperor. More so by Tullius who is commanded by the Emperor. Now TM II is dead. So where is the Imperial leadership now? Ulfric is allowing for Nord tradition to take place. Even if he knows he will be High King, he respects tradition. Edited March 4, 2013 by HighkingUlfricStormcloak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighkingUlfricStormcloak Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Kradus, I know Im right. Im trying to make you understand why I chose the side I chose and you have repeatedly shown you know nothing of why I do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighkingUlfricStormcloak Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 I know what isnt right. It isnt right to forcefully keep a people whom you have religiously oppressed to comply with your agenda in a fashion that they dont agree with. It isnt right to ignore your peoples suffering to do ^. It isnt right to accept terms that force the secession of a province that helped you during the war. It isnt right to be racist. And I dont agree with Ulfrics racism but I cant change that. It isnt right to call upon the help of the men and woman who are the backbone of your army then make them deny their god and occupy their homeland. Thats whats not right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kradus Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 The Empire does the same thing with the Jarls. Replace the Jarls with Jarls that will vote Elisif as High Queen because she will allow the Empire to walk all over her. She lets Ulfric do it to.Actually the original Jarls voted for Torygg, that's it. If Ulfric actually respected tradition, he would abide by their will, not use the ancient costumes as a tool for his own advancement. Manipulating the ancient costumes to kill his lawfull highking and then creating a fake moot by war, one that will certainly support his claim, while using the ban on the worship of talos to gather an army for that purpose, says it all.That guy is actually smarter than I gave him credit at first. The Thalmor want the civil war. It dwindles the resources of both sides equally. "As long as the civil war proceeds in its current indecisive fashion, we should remain hands-off." - "A Stormcloak victory is also to be avoided, however, so even indirect aid to the Stormcloaks must be carefully managed." Thats from the dossier. Exactly my point. If the Thalmor had any control over the empire like you claim, they'd have done something to keep it from winning the civil war. Yet their only involvement was provoking you guys into rebelling, and supporting you indirectly. Your argument however, that "the AD controls the empire" has no basis. Even Tullius shuts Elenwhen down in the greybeard council, when she starts bitching at Ulfric. The legions arent doing "their own thing" they are commanded by the Emperor. More so by Tullius who is commanded by the Emperor. Now TM II is dead. So where is the Imperial leadership now? Ulfric is allowing for Nord tradition to take place. Even if he knows he will be High King, he respects tradition. The legion keep fighting the civil war, even after the emperor gets killed, so yes, they are doing their jobs regardless.When the head of state dies, theres always a transition of power to the next in line. That's called hereditariness, there is an Elder council and an Imperial Marchal after all, and after those, the Generals/Legates. The idea that the empire or the legions would stop working without the emperor is yet another baseless argument. And again if Ulfric respected tradition, he would have abide by it, not chase after over half the moot. Kradus, I know Im right. Im trying to make you understand why I chose the side I chose and you have repeatedly shown you know nothing of why I do so. I can make an educated guess of why stormcloak/HighKingUlfricStormcloak would want to emulate the rebelious barbarian stereiotype, while fighting the opressive Roman lookalikes, and posting baseless arguments to justify it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) Skyrim's compliance was bought and paid for, and even Torygg supposedly was feeling guilty about the whole thing. Save us with the traditions, they go out the window when coin changes hands. Edited March 4, 2013 by fraquar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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