StormHammer81 Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) @fraquar Fair point.I'll raise you one though, what about Elenwen, because you know she will demand to be at the proceedings and you know the Empire doesn't know how to say no. :biggrin: Is an opportunity for the Empire to start saying No. This is where the Empire's leadership will either start picking up the pieces or will permanently submit to Thalmor authority. Skyrim is not the Dominion, technically Elenwen has no purpose for being at that meeting other than to serve Dominion interests. Edited March 5, 2013 by StormHammer81 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighkingUlfricStormcloak Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 And yet the Empire allows it. If you dont sympathize with the Stormcloaks I would like to know why. Is it because you are so opposed to racism that you'd rather oppress peoples right to freedom? Are you against Nords? Do you hold a grudge against Skyrim? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 This Empire can't say no to the Thalmor, they have no backbone. Can't grow one of those overnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matortheeternal Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) I personally don't think either side is morally right or morally wrong. Anyone who states this is simplifying the situation. You have players on both sides who have positive motivators - e.g. both want to remove the Thalmor from Skyrim. However, they each also have their negative aspects, as outlined by the many posters before me. Neither side represents a perfectly morally correct position. In the end, I feel it should come down to the dragonborn/other movers and shakers to correct the wrongs in the side they choose. Choose the empire, have a dragonborn emperor, and drive the thalmor out eventually (but will it be too late?). Choose the stormcloaks and wipe the tables clean so you can make direct moves against the thalmor, but risk the thalmor making a move while the empire is susceptible during this moment of change. Bethesda presents us with a unique and realistic decision in which there is no easy choice. Flip a coin if you can't choose. I personally have always supported the stormcloaks. Reason being: revolution and change are some of the most important motivators for reform and growth. TES, as a fantasy world, can't grow without change, and the Stormcloak rebellion represents change. While Ulfric may have slightly selfish goals at some point, he never came off as an ass. Tullius et al, did. See executions. While Tullius and the imperials think they're doing the right thing, they've already allowed themselves to be stepped on by the Thalmor, and continue to do nothing while Ulfric raises an army to take action. The Thalmor infringe on basic human rights, and must be stopped. Join the Stormcloaks, openly oppose the Thalmor, seems logical to me. Furthermore, who in their right mind would join the side which tries to execute them on first sight? Seems rather silly to me. The question becomes one of established order vs. new ideas. Complacency vs. action. Conservatism vs. liberalism. I'm fairly liberal, so I suppose that helps to explain why I support the Stormcloaks. :) Edit: The racism is obviously not motivational, but I don't see how the perspectives of a few angry soldiers should be taken as representative of an entire people. Maybe I'm missing some part of the game, but I've only seen one mention of this racism in Skyrim, and that's upon entering Windhelm. Edited March 5, 2013 by matortheeternal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighkingUlfricStormcloak Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) Strangely enough Im a really conservative person. Is it just my borwser? I keep seeing this <np/s> crap. Someone who knows, please shed some light on this, haha. Edited March 5, 2013 by HighkingUlfricStormcloak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matortheeternal Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Strangely enough Im a really conservative person. Conservative in our day and age is actually quite liberal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer81 Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) @Highking And yet the Empire allows it. If you dont sympathize with the Stormcloaks I would like to know why. Is it because you are so opposed to racism that you'd rather oppress peoples right to freedom? Are you against Nords? Do you hold a grudge against Skyrim? I'm not really a rebel. Although people who know me might disagree with that assertion. :biggrin: I do sympathize with both sides really. There is truth in each. I wouldn't even mind seeing Skyrim free of the Empire. However. The truth is I have a real problem with Ulfric's leadership. I have a problem swearing loyalty to him. Whereas with the Empire, it seems like they're more I dunno... sincere and open-minded. Nords are not my favorite race although they have my respect. Neither are Imperials. I'm an Orc or Elf. Also, I like the Imperial Jarls much better, they seem to me more "colorful". Edited March 5, 2013 by StormHammer81 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fraquar Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Have to be honest here, I'm not seeing the Imperials wanting the Thalmor out of Skyrim. In fact, I'm seeing the exact opposite. They are turning a blind eye to everything they are doing. It's the whole crux of the problem. If they are following Imperial high command orders then Imperial high command needs an enema. If this were an Imperial heavy handed rebellion quashing I'd understand - though I might not agree with it at least I'd understand and could support why they were doing it. This goes far beyond that, this goes to an Empire that is intimidated by the Thalmor at every turn. It's almost disgusting to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighkingUlfricStormcloak Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 ^, Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer81 Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) Have to be honest here, I'm not seeing the Imperials wanting the Thalmor out of Skyrim. In fact, I'm seeing the exact opposite. They are turning a blind eye to everything they are doing. It's the whole crux of the problem. If they are following Imperial high command orders then Imperial high command needs an enema. If this were an Imperial heavy handed rebellion quashing I'd understand - though I might not agree with it at least I'd understand and could support why they were doing it. This goes far beyond that, this goes to an Empire that is intimidated by the Thalmor at every turn. It's almost disgusting to think about. Yep. Imagine how we feel about it :/ The only hope we really have is with General Tullius and the Dragonborn. He stood up to Elenwen at Helgen and his administration is anti-Thalmor. Further still, the Elder Council *appears* to be rallying against TMII and it's inferred also against the WGC thru the Dark Brotherhood Quest(s). Edited March 5, 2013 by StormHammer81 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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