Imperial VS Stormcloak

[Kayyyleb]

Isn't it a political matter?

 

I always join up with the stormcloacks. I can't stand the nice and well dressed empire. Just like trained identical puppies. Everything in order, precise and correct. Slaves of authorities and systems, so they don't have to think so much by them selves.

 

I tried to join the empire one single time. I was so bored.

Well, I also find the story and quest line only half as good as the stormclock part.

 

Ah well, I guess it's just a reaction on the world today, with all the centralised goverments, high tech and the way we get further away from nature.

Nature gave us 20 year lifespans. Science and technology increased it to 80.

[MightyZ0G]

so if you are Stormcloak Ulfric says he would like to take Whiterun without bloodshed.

 

if you are Imperial, Balgruuf gives Ulfric the chance to take Whiterun without bloodshed by being a man and facing him alone rather than sending his army.

 

and remember, the Thalmor are only in Skyrim because of Ulfric.

until he threw his toys out of his pram and held Markarth to ransom with his demands for the free worship of Talos (even though the High King, at least 1 Jarl, an Imperial Legate and some members of the courts all worshipped Talos quite happily beofre then) the Thalmor where blissfully ignorant of this and didn't have a presence in Skyrim.

it was Ulfric who gave them the excuse to enforce the terms of the WGC in Skyrim and then he blames the Imperials for the Thalmor in Skyrim :\

[TheLoreSeeker]

While imprisoned during the Great War, he was tortured by Elenwen for information, which if eventually gave up. Although he gave them this information after the Imperial City had been taken, the Dominion falsely led him to believe that the information was used in the sack of the White Gold Tower in Cyrodiil. Ulfric was then allowed to escape prison and he returned to Skyrim.

"Allowed to escape."

[ShannonRutherford]

Anyone thought that there was something more between Rikke & Ulfric, i think there was. Ending scene for Stormcloaks proves that.

[MidbossVyers]

 

Hm, I don't recall the dialogue completely, but the "a man, not a boy" part isn't Balgruuf talking about himself and how he won't back down? I think was "I am not a king, but neither am I boy"... Really can't remember.

Is it said anywhere in game that he tried to learn the Voice? All I remember is that he, like many Nords, made the pilgrimage to High Hrothgar.

Ulfric choosing to send his army doesn't strike me as cowardice in the least - not only it was the first major battle for the Stormcloaks, but also Ulfric doesn't have free pass around cities anymore. He could be assassinated anywhere outside Windhelm, which I think is the sole reason why he doesn't engage in any battle other than that for Solitude.

The "man, not a boy" line is Balgruuf essentially saying that unlike Torygg, he can actually hold his own in a fight. Both Balgruuf and Torygg had more balls than Ulfric does in this regard. Torygg knew he was going to die but accepted the challenge anyways and Balgruuf was confident that he could contend with Ulfric so he challenged him. Ulfric accepts the easy challenge then sends his army to do the dirty work when there's a chance he might lose. If that's not cowardice, I'm not sure what is.

 

Balgruuf made the pilgrimage like many other Nords. That doesn't mean he was trying to learn the Voice from the Greybeards. Doesn't mean he wasn't either. But either way it's irrelevant.

 

What is relevant is that Ulfric sends his army to conquer a neutral hold and kill his own fellow Nords when if he had the guts he could've fought a duel for the same goal (and likely earned more respect that way). I see that as cowardice. Normally I don't really care about honor and tradition or whatever (guess I'm like Imperials in that way) but this is a case where he could've saved lives and chose not to just to make another political statement. If the Stormcloak army wants to prove itself, why doesn't it go challenge the Legion in a major battle instead of attacking their neutral countrymen? The whole situation reeks of fear from Ulfric who is apparently all for tradition and honor until it might not work for him then it's time to send in the goon squad.

No more cowardly than Tullius barking some crap about execution by Imperial justice, when the Legion has the advantage, but then trying to reason with Ulfric after he's beaten to the floor during the Battle for Solitude.

[Kayyyleb]

The key difference here is that Ulfric is supposed to stand for Nord tradition, honor, freedom and all that crap but only does it when convenient. Tullius doesn't preach and make grand speeches that he ought to live up to like Ulfric is fond of doing. He's just a general there to do his job in keeping the Empire together not a supposedly idealistic crusader fighting for truth, justice, honor and all those other nice words that get people riled up.

[ShannonRutherford]

After all what's the big difference with who u join im talking about war with Thalmor, u alone are Dovahkin a person that can crush deadliest dragons, hagravens, vampires, falmers, Alduin The World Eater, Harkon, Mirrak so what is a weakling army of pointed ass-eared high elves.....NOTHING!!!

Although, with the Stormcloaks u will at least have strong men & women to fight with u till the end, on the other hand with Imperial Bastards.....they are gonna be killed instantly no wonder why they lost the first war/battle in the first place.

Edited April 3, 2013 by ShannonRutherford

[sisterof]

Anyone thought that there was something more between Rikke & Ulfric, i think there was. Ending scene for Stormcloaks proves that.

Yes, they were shield-brothers during the war, along with Galmar. So they're fellow veterans.

 

And the Dragonborn is powerful, but he's not an army. He cannot win against whatever just through awesomeness alone.

 

Edited April 3, 2013 by sisterof

[MightyZ0G]

After all what's the big difference with who u join im talking about war with Thalmor, u alone are Dovahkin a person that can crush deadliest dragons, hagravens, vampires, falmers, Alduin The World Eater, Harkon, Mirrak so what is a weakling army of pointed ass-eared high elves.....NOTHING!!!

 

Although, with the Stormcloaks u will at least have strong men & women to fight with u till the end, on the other hand with Imperial Bastards.....they are gonna be killed instantly no wonder why they lost the first war/battle in the first place.

 

with a Stormcloak victory you have the remains of the Stormcloak army

with an Imperial Victory you have the Nords loyal to the Emperor and the Legions of High Rock and Cyrodiil plus the Dunmer of Solstheim and Morrowind.

 

if the Dragonborn didn't show up in Skyrim then the Imperials would probably win unless the Thalmor intervene idirectly to prevent Imperial success (as they apparently were ready to do at Helgen when it looked like Ulfric was to be executed)

 

@Sithis

from the Thalmor dossiers it looks like they set everything up so that Ulfric would give them the excuse they needed to operate freely in Skyrim.

the exact details are unknown.

it also looks like Ulfric became uncooperative after they demanded that the Empire arrest him for Talos worship.

[sisterof]

Where are people getting the idea the Thalmor were in Helgen to avoid Ulfric's execution? Elenwen is shown talking to Tullius but absolutely nothing is said about the affair - there's not a single mention of the Thalmor effectively interrupting the sentence, that's pure conjecture. They are indeed hoping the Civil War will drag on, but they're hardly willing to directly manipulate it. Or maybe they believe the rebellion will continue without Ulfric.

"Dormant asset" means he's unaware of the situation, that things he do may be used for the Thalmor's advantage. He never worked with the Dominion. "Uncooperative" because he started striking directly at the Thalmor, becoming perhaps more trouble than he's worth for them, as now instead of simply diverging the Empire's forces he's also disrupting the Thalmor's plans.

Edited April 3, 2013 by sisterof