Imperial VS Stormcloak

[TheLoreSeeker]

He did cave to Elenwen's torture and give up information that "helped them sack the Imperial City" in exchange for his freedom.

Or at least he THINKS thats what happened.

Edited April 3, 2013 by TheLoreSeeker

[MidbossVyers]

Where are people getting the idea the Thalmor were in Helgen to avoid Ulfric's execution? Elenwen is shown talking to Tullius but absolutely nothing is said about the affair - there's not a single mention of the Thalmor effectively interrupting the sentence, that's pure conjecture. They are indeed hoping the Civil War will drag on, but they're hardly willing to directly manipulate it. Or maybe they believe the rebellion will continue without Ulfric.

 

"Dormant asset" means he's unaware of the situation, that things he do may be used for the Thalmor's advantage. He never worked with the Dominion. "Uncooperative" because he started striking directly at the Thalmor, becoming perhaps more trouble than he's worth for them, as now instead of simply diverging the Empire's forces he's also disrupting the Thalmor's plans.

The Thalmor hoped that the War would drag on but was instead interrupted by a dragon... OK, puns aside. Neither Tullius nor Ulfric are really cowards. They are politicians.

[sisterof]

Thank the Gods for Alduin. :biggrin:

Indeed, I don't think either Tullius or Ulfric are cowards - not even hypocrites. They both sound like they are truly doing what they believe is best and right. Tullius acting cowardly upon defeat and Ulfric getting self-righteous are just interesting aspects to their characters, imo, not defects per se.

@TheLoreSeeker: I was wondering recently if Ulfric would know he was lied to during his torture. Unless they kept him imprisoned for long enough for him to lose track of time, upon his "escape" he would figure out the timing of his confession and the invasion of the Imperial City didn't match.

[HighkingUlfricStormcloak]

He did cave to Elenwen's torture and give up information that "helped them sack the Imperial City" in exchange for his freedom.

 

Or at least he THINKS thats what happened.

 

 

Honestly I think Ulfric deeply regrets that he broke during his imprisonment, I dont think they ever told him that the city fell before he broke. I think he believes he betrayed the Empire, in that case.

 

 

After all what's the big difference with who u join im talking about war with Thalmor, u alone are Dovahkin a person that can crush deadliest dragons, hagravens, vampires, falmers, Alduin The World Eater, Harkon, Mirrak so what is a weakling army of pointed ass-eared high elves.....NOTHING!!!

 

Although, with the Stormcloaks u will at least have strong men & women to fight with u till the end, on the other hand with Imperial Bastards.....they are gonna be killed instantly no wonder why they lost the first war/battle in the first place.

 

with a Stormcloak victory you have the remains of the Stormcloak army

with an Imperial Victory you have the Nords loyal to the Emperor and the Legions of High Rock and Cyrodiil plus the Dunmer of Solstheim and Morrowind.

 

if the Dragonborn didn't show up in Skyrim then the Imperials would probably win unless the Thalmor intervene idirectly to prevent Imperial success (as they apparently were ready to do at Helgen when it looked like Ulfric was to be executed)

 

@Sithis

from the Thalmor dossiers it looks like they set everything up so that Ulfric would give them the excuse they needed to operate freely in Skyrim.

the exact details are unknown.

it also looks like Ulfric became uncooperative after they demanded that the Empire arrest him for Talos worship.

 

 

Also, you dont have the Dunmer from Solstheim or Morrowind, House Redoran Runs both and they hate the Empire. They abandoned Morrowind twice and House Redoran barely saved the Dunmer people, twice!

 

If High Rock had a real fighting force then why are their cities falling to corsairs?

 

The Empire is who allowed the AD to operate freely in Skyrim, not Ulfric, he opposes the WGC. He's not using Talos worship, he actually worships Talos, this is said by the NPC in the Temple of Talos in Windhelm.

 

Now sadly I must retire from the Forums. I cannot take the time to do this anymore. I just found out Im going to be a father. I want to thank you all for debating with me on this. It was fun while it lasted for me. I had a good run and now I cant take the time to think about this as in depth as I have been. So to all my fellow Stormcloaks, I bid you all good luck and know that you can continue the fight without me there to back you up, but feel as though Im leaving you for the wolves.

 

In the future I may be able to "Rejoin" but as of right now, I feel I dont have the time mentally.

 

For Kayyyleb. - Funny, you said that you feel attached to the Imperials because they fit you. I feel that way about the Stormcloaks, Im Swedish and Norwegian, my parents raised me as a pagan (they never converted to Christianity) and when Morrowind came out I fell in love with the Nords. Ever since then I have played as a Nord. I just love when people get truly passionate about things. The Stormcloaks won me to their side, each soldier, not Ulfric or Galmar, they, to me, were just bonuses.

 

Anyway, good luck to all of you. I might return some day to reignite the flames of this Forum, if it has died in my absence. But I feel that I never really held the torch.

 

Go with the Gods.

[TheLoreSeeker]

Congrats Ulfric!!! and Goodbye, it has been fun.

Good luck with raising a little Stormcloak!

[MightyZ0G]

Goodbye and goodluck Ulfric

 

even though you Ulfric won't be back to read this I am going to answer some of his points.

where does it say that House Redoran hates the Empire?

the Empire, through their puppet Torygg, gave House Redoran the city of Raven Rock, which was an Imperial city operated by The East Empire Company.

there is also mutual respect between House Redoran and The Imperial Legion.

Morrowind is also still part of the Empire even though it has been through several disasters which is why Solstheim was given to the Dunmer.

 

 

Where are people getting the idea the Thalmor were in Helgen to avoid Ulfric's execution? Elenwen is shown talking to Tullius but absolutely nothing is said about the affair - there's not a single mention of the Thalmor effectively interrupting the sentence, that's pure conjecture. They are indeed hoping the Civil War will drag on, but they're hardly willing to directly manipulate it. Or maybe they believe the rebellion will continue without Ulfric.

"Dormant asset" means he's unaware of the situation, that things he do may be used for the Thalmor's advantage. He never worked with the Dominion. "Uncooperative" because he started striking directly at the Thalmor, becoming perhaps more trouble than he's worth for them, as now instead of simply diverging the Empire's forces he's also disrupting the Thalmor's plans.

 

from the Thalmor Dossier on Ulfric

"Operational Notes: Direct contact remains a possibility (under extreme circumstances), but in general the asset should be considered dormant. As long as the civil war proceeds in its current indecisive fashion, we should remain hands-off. The incident at Helgen is an example where an exception had to be made - obviously Ulfric's death would have dramatically increased the chance of an Imperial victory and thus harmed our overall position in Skyrim. (NOTE: The coincidental intervention of the dragon at Helgen is still under scrutiny. The obvious conclusion is that whoever is behind the dragons also has an interest in the continuation of the war, but we should not assume therefore that their goals align with our own.)"

 

while Ulfric was free and leading the Rebellion the Thalmor were happy to let him do the work onhis own, but when he got captured, Elenwen went to Helgen to prevent Ulfric's execution. this is the exception that had to be made. but before she had to intervene, Alduin appeared and Ulfric managed to escape, possibly helped back to Windhelm by citizens of Skyrim who are in the pay of the Thalmor, like Gissur.

[TheLoreSeeker]

Goodbye and goodluck Ulfric

the Empire, through their puppet Torygg, gave House Redoran the city of Raven Rock, which was an Imperial city operated by The East Empire Company.

 

Quick! Make an edit correction before the Cloaks catch wind of it!

 

The High King of Skyrim gave Solstheim to the Dunmer in 4E 16......it's currently 4E 201. That's 185 years wrong.

[sisterof]

from the Thalmor Dossier on Ulfric

"Operational Notes: Direct contact remains a possibility (under extreme circumstances), but in general the asset should be considered dormant. As long as the civil war proceeds in its current indecisive fashion, we should remain hands-off. The incident at Helgen is an example where an exception had to be made - obviously Ulfric's death would have dramatically increased the chance of an Imperial victory and thus harmed our overall position in Skyrim. (NOTE: The coincidental intervention of the dragon at Helgen is still under scrutiny. The obvious conclusion is that whoever is behind the dragons also has an interest in the continuation of the war, but we should not assume therefore that their goals align with our own.)"

Ah, bloody Thalmor. Thanks for the correction, mighty zog! I wonder what Elenwen would do since Tullius was obviously going to go through with the execution despite her calling him to the sidelines. She apparently gives up anyway and leaves - so it shows they aren't willing to go very far to keep Ulfric alive. Though they should, given their interest in the Civil War, even if it could continue without him.

 

Once again, thank the Gods for Alduin!

And with that, let me crash in utter exhaustion before I reach that point when you're too tired to sleep and end up spiralling into a vortex of madness. I'm sure everyone can relate. .... Right?

[swmXIII]

Well,given that imperials wanted to execute you just because,I enjoy killing that Imperial Captain in each and every vanilla start... Edited April 4, 2013 by swmXIII

[MightyZ0G]

but how do we know that our character is really innocent?

the horse thief kept saying he was innocent then contradicts himself by saying that if it wasn't for the Stormcloaks he'd have been away on that horse.

 

@TheLoreSeeker

well whoever it was, he was a loyal citizen of the Empire and for a Nord to give territory away to the Dunmer probably means that the suggestion came from the Imperial court

Edited April 4, 2013 by mighty zog