Imperial VS Stormcloak

[Sianama]

Would it surprise you if I said that I joined the Empire on more than one playthrough? ^^

[sisterof]

It's his wife... You're acting like they just met behind the corner club on their first date... it's his WIFE. He's probably sick and tired of hearing about what Skyrim should be doing from Ulfric and his court and the Empire and everyone else. It's abundantly clear that Elisif has deep feelings for Torygg as well. It's not enough Ulfric murdered him, now you guys are going after Torygg's relationship with his wife too... I just think there comes a point where we leave the Civil War and cross into the realm of someone's private person. Quite frankly, I don't blame him because it's a hot mess which he didn't start and the only good thing amongst the political hell was his beloved wife, Elisif... To this point, I think Ulfric was crazy with envy because he even says, "Oh well he was too busy entertaining his Queen..." Ulfric is a real piece of work, I'll say. A very angry, anti-social, bitter, conniving individual.

It's his wife but he's a king. Don't you find strange that he seems to care for nothing, absolutely nothing else?

Interesting that you point out he was sick of hearing about Skyrim's issues from Ulfric and so on.... So it means Ulfric did try to reason with him before the duel. Wasn't "Ulfric murdered him without trying diplomacy first" a main point you were defending before?

And we've been talking about the characters themselves from the beginning... Going for Torygg and Elisif is as fitting as going for Tullius and Ulfric.

 

 

 

 

Would it surprise you if I said that I joined the Empire on more than one playthrough? ^^

I have too. I wanted to hear both sides openly before choosing my Dragonborn's allegiance, even though my other character who's not Dragonborn is Imperial.

Edited April 7, 2013 by sisterof

[Sianama]

 

 

I have too. I wanted to hear both sides openly before choosing my Dragonborn's allegiance, even though my other character who's not Dragonborn is Imperial.

For me it's actually a large part of the fun and even sometimes the challenge in a game, to go and see what both sides do and say. If they live up to their promises and what I especially like to do is find out if I can find anyone or any evidence that shows, if what one side claims is true or untrue. I try to stay as open-minded as I can, because otherwise you just can't even think of anything you favored side says might possibly be untrue. Or that even if you favor one side, there might be major flaws there ^^

What I can say is that my favorite solution would have been a real peace-treaty. Leaving aside the fact that I think most of the Empire's government is corrupted to the bone (and I'm not even talking about the Emperor himself here) and that is also true for most of Skyrim's government, there are good points and good people on both sides. And I'm counting Tullius among them. If you ever heard what he has to say, once the Empire won, it's even sadder to think you cannot come to some agreement between Tullius and Ulfric in 'Season Unending'. The same is true if you talk to Ulfric in Sovngarde, after you killed him. Why couldn't he just have seen what he sees then before? Maybe some time back upon that mountain before charging into battle would have been good for him, Skyrim and the rest of the world.

Edited April 7, 2013 by Sianama

[TheLoreSeeker]

So as to not step on even thinner ice with some questions that I'd really like to ask, I'll ask one that is way less provoking (I hope^^):

 

Is there any explanation why the Empire just lets Hammerfell go (abandons it, as some NPCs ingame put it) without much trying and puts so much effort and ressources into keeping Skyrim in line? I've asked myself that all game long, but I can't really find a reason, apart from maybe 'sentimental' ones, but that can hardly be it.

 

I am gonna go with either they knew they couldn't hold Hammerfell....since the Redguards are crazy good fighters OR the entirety of the Hammerfell government wanted to leave. Its different than whats going on in Skyrim because the "powers in charge of Skyrim" were usurped. I think it's the Empire's duty to its provinces to step in if someone tries to overthrow the government.

[Anska]

Nobody says it's not nice or understandable that Torygg's last thoughts were with his wife. We just argue that it doesn't really help to mark him as a great man of state. If you encounter Ulfric or (if I remember correctly) Rikke in Sovengard, all they care about is their people and their country, because those are the things that matter most to them. Shouldn't the same be expected of a High King. The person who's duty it actually is to run the country? And this is eventually all Ulfric is complaining about too, that Torygg didn't get his priorities right.

 

Apart from that, I can't help but find that Torygg's "I at least have my honor intact" speech sounds a little ... miffed. He has nothing else to show for, so he clings to his honor. Probably was the only thing that got him to Sovengard too.

[TheLoreSeeker]

Neither Ulfric or Rikke are married though....and neither has living family to worry about...and both are soldiers, so it is reasonable that their thoughts would be about their country, since that is what they dedicated their lives to.

Torygg on the other hand, had JUST gotten married. He was a man in love and he cared about his family. It makes sense to me.

[Anska]

Torygg did dedicate his life to his country as well, when accepting the position of High King, didn't he?

 

It's a question of which priority one gives to one's values. In this case duty > honor > family versus honor > family > duty. While Torygg picked the latter, I can see why the former can be expected of a king. Had he placed family first, he would have rejected the duel, had he placed duty first, there might have never been a duel in the first place.

[Sianama]

 

I am gonna go with either they knew they couldn't hold Hammerfell....since the Redguards are crazy good fighters OR the entirety of the Hammerfell government wanted to leave. Its different than whats going on in Skyrim because the "powers in charge of Skyrim" were usurped. I think it's the Empire's duty to its provinces to step in if someone tries to overthrow the government.

The Redguards said 'no' right after the Concordat, right? Not some 30 years later. So it's probably both things a little. The Empire couldn't have fought them right after the Great War, because their ressources were exhausted and it's also true, that in Skyrim at least half of the people and half of the government still believe in the Empire and were willing to go with the 'trick' (I think signing the Concordat was supposed to be a trick, to put off the fight for a while).

[MightyZ0G]

there is another point to be made about Torygg in Sovngarde. once a Nord enters Sovngarde they no longer battle for causes. once there all that matters is honour and Stormcloaks and Legion can be found side by side.

so if Torygg is no longer bound to a cause, why should it be wrong if he no longer talks about it and thinks about his widow left alone?

[Kayyyleb]

there is another point to be made about Torygg in Sovngarde. once a Nord enters Sovngarde they no longer battle for causes. once there all that matters is honour and Stormcloaks and Legion can be found side by side.

so if Torygg is no longer bound to a cause, why should it be wrong if he no longer talks about it and thinks about his widow left alone?

This.

 

Ulfric, Galmar and Rikke once in Sovngarde don't exoress much care for the politics and conflicts back in Skyrim any longer. It's unfair to for some reason expect Torygg to and to try and hold that against him. When you're dead your priorities change, a lot of the things in your old life would be irrelevant to you.