Imperial VS Stormcloak

[novalova10]

This is why i allways choose the rebel side: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CekehhyTqC4

[thesapien]

I was just thinking about starting a new character as a high elf who agrees with the Thalmor that Skyrim should be ruled by elves and not humans. Then it occured to me that this civil war is exactly what the Thalmor need in order to weaken humans of Skyrim.

 

So maybe just pick the weaker side so the war can continue.

[KratosAurion777]

The empire is controlled by The thalmor , The ultimate goal of the thalmor is to erase the human/beast presence on Tamriel : Redguard/Nord/imperial/Argonian/Kitty That may include Orsimer/Dunmer and Breton .

 

Ulfric Fight against The Empire , when you finish the rebellion questline he say it's just the start .

 

I suppose the DLC content Will be The War against The Thalmor or the Rebellion of the Empire against the Thalmor depending which questline you chose .

 

My goal is to exterminate all Altmer and Bosmer Presence on Tamriel , So i chose the Rebellion because it's the quickest way to achieve it :devil:

[Karmine]

The Stormcloak are against all who are not a Nord, well at least Ulfric is. But he likes Dragonborn legends so you can pass as any race.

 

Ulfric has great temper and can be harsh on his close friends and subjects.

 

Ulfric only cares for power.

 

 

Imperial wear roman outfits (HUGE PLUS for me xD)

 

The Imperial Emperor is great commander, The Battle of the Red Ring for example... he decided to leave Imperial City when it was under siege while all his advisors were against it. Thanks to him leaving the Empire still had an Emperor and could reclaim it in "The Battle of the Red Ring".

 

The Empire was weakened and so was the Aldmeri. The Empire could possibly have won full victory if they reunited with Hammerfell however instead of doing All or Nothing bet that was most likely 50/50 they decided on Peace so at least it's subjects could live peacefully longer.

 

If Stormcloaks win in Skyrim the Aldmeri is facing Hammerfell/Cyrodiil/Skyrim as 3 different countries who do not aid each other.

If Imperial win in Skyrim the Aldmeri is facing Hammerfell/Cyrodill&Skyrim as 2 Different countries who will most likely ally a war breaks out as Imperial is only ignoring Hammerfell to keep the peace.

 

Imperials really don't have any problems with people in Skyrim having Talos still as their God, just that they do it privately, this problem only began when Stormcloaks started their Rebellion.

[bombomb]

 

I've done both story-lines,and it seems like Ulfric is a power hungry jerk.

 

First off, the guy kills High King Torygg. Ulfric said it was a fair duel, but why would he kill Torygg, and then rush out the main gate to avoid capture?

 

Because the Empire tried to arrest him, despite the fact that Torygg accepted the duel, which neither side contests. Even Solitude's court mage attests to this, and the fact that Torygg agreed precisely because refusing the challenge could have lead to a new Moot, with Torygg losing his position as High King.

 

It's not the fact that duel was legal. It's the morality being questioned. People run when they have guilt. Why did Ulfric run if he wasn't guilty? If he truly believed his cause was just, he would have accepted the punishment for it.

 

 

If he truly believed in his own cause, he should just got caught and got executed for it.

 

Which should he die when he didn't commit a crime? Are you seriously berating Ulfric for not letting the Empire kill him?

Again, the morality is being questioned here. Ulfric had better ways to approach the situation with Empire. He took the violent route, when all he could have done is petition to the High King for independence, and practice non-violent civil disobedience. Ulfric's ways are barbaric, which puts Skyrim closer to uncivilization.

 

The only reason why Skyrim has a stable society is because Legionaries die on foreign soil everyday to protect them, their ideals and their way of life. Why does Ulfric work so hard to destroy this concept? Ironically , since Ulfric was an Imperial solider - being a veteran of the Great War - he did align himself with the ideals of the Imperials. He must know the Nord way of life is obsolete in civil society.

 

His little rebellion is only his act to take power from a weakened government. He's an opportunist, not a revolutionary.

 

 

At least, he would have been a full martyr. No, instead , he has a poor, old guy named Roggvir set up to save his ass. by opening the gates for his escape. Ulfric never gives alms to the poor guy, even though he got executed for aiding his escape. It just seems he was a means to an end.

 

Roggvir isn't some "poor, old guy," he seemed to be middle-aged, and according to at least one person he was a malevolent person to a former childhood friend of his.

 

"Poor, old guy", ok so you got me on semantics. However, I was using it as an extended metaphor to describe how Ulfric manipulated Roggvir. Your argument doesn't dispute this, so , I'll move on.

 

To add, Ulfric Stormcloak leaves a terrible precedent for the succession of power. Ulfric's ideology is that if you disagree with the guy in charge , just challenge him and kill him for his seat.

 

 

Actually, that's part of Nordic tradition - you can challenge the ruling High King. This isn't a precedent that starts with Ulfric - it started a long time ago, which is why the precedent exists for Ulfric to challenge Torygg.

 

Nord tradition? Nords don't own Skyrim, because many races have lived in Skyrim long before the Nords. Hm? Their traditions don't matter? Why?

 

I know why...

 

Ulfric and his followers have a god-complex over other races. Their inferior to the Nords, so their traditions are irrelevant.

 

The Empire offers a better solution by passing on power though family succession, which isn't necessarily perfect, but for the most part prevents bloodshed.

The Dark Brotherhood would like to have a word with you about that.

I'm not too sure what you mean by that. The Dark Brotherhood has the listener assassinate the Emperor for gold. That just seems like a basic conspiracy murder- here.... nothing to talk about...

 

Ulfric's approach to independent sovereignty, murdering to usurp power, is the "powder bomb" that leads to the Civil War. Ironically, his Civil War is killing the very thing he preaches about that his cause is protecting : Talos's legacy.

 

Talos' legacy is being subverted by the Thalmor, who have full impunity over civilians throughout the Empire.

 

Talos's legacy isn't his religion. Talos's legacy is the Empire - creating civilization in Tamerial, to cradle humankind. Without Talos, humans would be nothing but neolithic Normads.

 

So far, the Empire has protected this idea by signing a Treaty with the Thalmor - however Ulfric's arrogance challenges this...

 

 

There's also the fact that Ulfric has committed war crimes against the native people of the Reach; Ulfric's militias ethnically cleansed them from their land.

 

According to a book that makes claims that are disputed by people who were living in the Reach, including Jarl Igmund, who sided with the Legion against Ulfric.

 

Jarl Igmund doesn't dispute the fact Ulfric ethnically cleansed the people from the Reach, he just says it in a nicer way. The existence of the Forsworn isn't just some magical coincidence. It's strong evidence of Ulfric's crimes against humanity.

 

 

Spoiler: The natives of the Reach , who survived Ulfric's genocidal onslaught, are the Forsworn.

 

According to several people who were actually living in the Reach, as opposed to the author of "The Markarth Bear," Ulfric was sent in to reclaim the Reach because the Empire offered religious freedom in exchange; when the Thalmor found out, Ulfric was arrested instead of the Empire keeping its word.

 

This is a gray area. Some people also say that Ulfric got a militia to remove the native people from Reach. Even more so, I doubt the Empire gave him the green light to commit genocide. Even so, he went too far.

 

 

 

So, he's even more hypocritical than the Empire, so don't buy into his victim card. Don't believe his petty speeches. He's just brainwashing the Stormcloaks into a cause that only benefits himself, and his echelon.

The Stormcloaks want religious freedom, and to remove the Thalmor from any position of authority within Skyrim. That's also what Ulfric wants, which is why people are following him.

 

Religious freedom? Worshiping Talos only became an issue when Ulfric caused a uproar about it. Until then, people could quietly worship Talos, and they still do ex. the Jarl of Solitude. Although, is religious freedom worth destroying every aspect of civilized society? Are you sure you're with Ulfric to move from a more democratic government to a theocracy? I don't think so.

 

 

 

Now for the Empire, they to have a lot to answer. They don't have answer for banning Talos, because that actually SAVED lives, something Ulfric never did unless his ass was on the line.

 

While it saved the Empire, it didn't save the lives of the people who were subsequetly kidnapped, tortured, and killed by the Thalmor.

 

It saved the Empire and it's people. I see more people alive than people in Thalmor prison camps.

 

Also, I don't see the Thalmor making Internment camp; they kidnap people who provide information, not for the sake of just doing it. However, that doesn't justify it.

 

However, the Empire did save lives , but some sacrifices must be made for the greater good.

 

Plus, the Empire is a ceasefire with the Thalmor, according to General Tillus who questions alliance of Thalmor, hinting they're gearing up to defeat them once and for all.

 

 

There's definitely corruption in the Empire, that Imperial captain who ordered to cut your head off.... with no probable cause... yeah I could see why that would make you join the Stormcloaks. Even more so, the General doesn't even try reverse order. The fact that Maven Black Briar becomes the Jarl of Riften after you win the Civil War.... come on. Justice is obviously blind here, but we must understand these are individuals that are corrupt, and must be treated individually.

 

You could say you could apply that property of individualism to Ulfric. However, Ulfric's ideology revolves around the supremacy of Nordic race, and he'll destroy any other race that isn't Nordic indiscriminately to reach that goal.

 

I'm pretty sure the Dunmer are still living in his city, and so are the Argonians. Ulfric doesn't try to kill people simply for not being Nords, he wants to deal with the Thalmor for wanting to destroy existance as they know it

 

They're living in his city, for now, but how long will that last? Ulfric isn't the offical High King yet, so maybe when he become High King, he'll have the support he needs to remove them all from Skyrim.

 

Argonians are forced to live OUTSIDE of Windhelm. This is comfirmed by Brunwolf Free-Winter, who becomes the Jarl after Ulfric's death.If you speak the Argonians near the ports, they too confirm this. They even have a hole they're all force to live in outside the city walls. The city of Windhelm offers them no protection or food.

 

Argonians and Dark Elfs face the parallel living conditions as Jewish ghettos during World War II in Windhelm. A walk through the Gray Quarter, and the docks is all the proof you need.

 

 

You could most certainly parallel Ulfric to Adolf Hitler in this sense because he has used military force to enforce his ideology before for Nordic supremacy.

 

You realize that comparison makes no sense, right? Ulfric doesn't remove the Dunmer or the Argonians living in Windhelm, he doesn't try to exterminate people for not being Nords, and he has no problem with the protagonist not being a Nord, either. The protagonist also isn't the only non-Nord that can become a Stormcloak, either.

 

Wrong, he did remove Argonians from the city. Since High King Torggy mandated that Dunmer should be allowed to live in the city, he had no choice. However, when he becomes the official High King, he'll most likely reverse that decision. Yes, he does exterminate people from not being Nords. You're forgetting he does during his crusade for the Reach.

 

Even more so, he allows his army to kill neutral soldiers example - the Battle of Whiterun. Again, Ulfric shows people who don't align themselves with Nord supremacy must be exterminated.

 

Of course Ulfric doesn't mind a non-nord protagonist. The protagonist is the DRAGONBORN, Talos was dragonborn. Of course he wants you on his side, as a cultural and warfare advantage.

 

He's just manipulating you.

 

 

 

He's DAMN sure not the kind of guy you want running a government. Emperor Tidus Mede II is light years ahead , in honor , compared to him. If you choose the Dark Brotherhood's story line, you know that without a doubt.

 

Titus Mede and Ulfric both accept their deaths with dignity, as you'd know if you played through the ending of the Battle for Windhelm.

 

However, Ulfric fought because he knew he was cornered like a rat.

 

The Emperor didn't, he accepted his fate.

 

The Emperor obviously is the more honorable here by accepting his fate./b]

 

 

Even if you haven't, given the fact that guy wouldn't sacrifice legionaries to keep, fighting a pointless war, and let an Empire live yet another day shows he understand what it means to be a true leader; to make choices that benefit the people you rule under, and not only yourself.

 

I'm sure removing the Thalmor from Skyrim would benefit plenty of people besides Ulfric.

 

Of course, the Empire has plans to go war with the Thalmor - General Tillus hints this at the end of the civil war. However, Ulfric definitely doesn't have the wisdom , or character to lead such a feat against the Thalmor. A leader as hypocritical , as himself , would only lead to more peril because of his blood-thirst for power.

 

Who's to say Ulfric isn't only after the Thalmor, but the world?

 

Edited December 28, 2011 by bombomb

[Lachdonin]

The empire is controlled by The thalmor , The ultimate goal of the thalmor is to erase the human/beast presence on Tamriel : Redguard/Nord/imperial/Argonian/Kitty That may include Orsimer/Dunmer and Breton .

 

First, and i will say again, the Empire is NOT controlled by the Thalmor. They are upholding a treaty, the exact terms of which remain unknown, which they have with the Thalmor. We only know of 3 terms, those being dissbanding the Blades, the sucession of several territories in southren Hammerfell, and the Talos ban. We know nothing further, and without the whole document (Which to the best of my knowlege has not even been written) we can't make a full and informed judgement about it. Its a variable, but can't be the ONLY variable.

 

Second, there are indications that the Thalmor want to do a lot more than wipe out Men and beast. There are some indications they want to undo the creation of Mundus to regain their godhood. We're talking LITERAL doomsday, something not even Alduin could do.

 

On to the state of the Empire. In Morrowind, Wulf indicates that times are changing. He also indicates that the Empire is changing. It has always existed in one way or another, but that the role of it is about to radically change. Based on this, we've already seen a change. Where once it was the unifing force in Tamriel, it now stands diametricly opposed to the Thalmor, acting as a counter to the blatant evil of the Thalmor and the Domminion. The Empire's changed role, then, is less one of universal stability, and one of standing opposed to anti-creation. They are the representation of Anu upon the Grey Maybe, whereas the Thalmor are Padomay in its most basic state, change and chaos.

 

As such, on a metaphysical level, the continuation of the Empire is nessessary. Of course, that all depends on them still having decent writers who read their own universe... They fit Jyggalag in, and he;s been naught but a name since Daggerfall, so i hold out hope that they ahve good writers.

[User211]

I know how many threads have been released over numerous sites about this, and personally I hate that I'm making another one about it... yet none of the responses so far has given me a solid reason to help end the civil war siding with one or another (in fact it made it worse), I'm playing as a redguard.

 

The Imperial legion is indeed, a shadow of its former self. The emperor is a fake, and a weakling, not to mention he is not dragonborn. They are puppets of the Altmer, yet at the same time they want a united Empire against the Altmer. Still I believe a people should govern itself, unity is one thing, imperialism is another.

 

Then we have the stormcloaks, a bunch of racist bigots with a leader who I don't even particularly like. Not to mention siding with them risks the Thalmor overruning Skyrim while it is weak. Still, it IS Skyrim, the land of the nords, and they refuse oppression, and hammerfell also revolted against the empire and held their own... making the stormcloaks a viable choice for my redguard.

 

But my redguard dislikes how elves are treated ingame by the stormcloaks... ARGH... I have to say this has been the hardest decision I had to make in a game. I need your help, please post your opinions! And help convince me to side one or the other!

Well my opinion would be that you the player should be given the option to be the ruler of skyrim. After all if you play as an dark brotherhood you end up killing a emperor so why not let you go a step further. Scene both side are pertly f*** up only way to bring peace to skyrim is to be the ruler of skyrim.

[LobselVith66]

 

It's not the fact that duel was legal. It's the morality being questioned. People run when they have guilt. Why did Ulfric run if he wasn't guilty? If he truly believed his cause was just, he would have accepted the punishment for it.

 

A person will also run when there are people trying to kill him. It has nothing to do with guilt and everything to do with survival. If the Legion is trying to execute Ulfric, then he's going to try to survive. It's human instinct.

 

 

Again, the morality is being questioned here. Ulfric had better ways to approach the situation with Empire. He took the violent route, when all he could have done is petition to the High King for independence, and practice non-violent civil disobedience. Ulfric's ways are barbaric, which puts Skyrim closer to uncivilization.

 

Ulfric didn't know that Torygg respected him as much as he did. While we - as the protagonist - know this because of Solitude's court mage personally informing us, Ulfric didn't at the time. All Ulfric knew was that the Empire and Torygg capitulated to the Dominion. Regardless of our own opinion on the matter, Ulfric disagreed with how the Empire and Torygg were handling things. Ulfric challenged the High King, which is completely legal and has a precedence in Nordic history.

 

 

The only reason why Skyrim has a stable society is because Legionaries die on foreign soil everyday to protect them, their ideals and their way of life. Why does Ulfric work so hard to destroy this concept? Ironically , since Ulfric was an Imperial solider - being a veteran of the Great War - he did align himself with the ideals of the Imperials. He must know the Nord way of life is obsolete in civil society.

 

I don't agree with the idea that Skyrim is stable because of the Empire - it plunged into a civil war because enough people had a problem with the Thalmor having free reign over civilians throughout the Empire and having their right to worship being revoked - not to mention the Thalmor being able to kidnap, torture, and murder people throughout the Empire with full impunity.

 

 

His little rebellion is only his act to take power from a weakened government. He's an opportunist, not a revolutionary.

 

That's certainly the view that some people have of Ulfric.

 

 

"Poor, old guy", ok so you got me on semantics. However, I was using it as an extended metaphor to describe how Ulfric manipulated Roggvir. Your argument doesn't dispute this, so , I'll move on.

 

How did Ulfric manipulate Roggvir into it? There isn't any indication that Ulfric coerced Roggvir into opening the gate for Ulfric to leave Solitude. In fact, Roggvir defends his decision even when his life is going to be taken.

 

 

Nord tradition? Nords don't own Skyrim, because many races have lived in Skyrim long before the Nords. Hm? Their traditions don't matter? Why?

 

I know why...

 

Traditions don't require that Nords "own" Skyrim, or even for them to have been the first people to populate Skyrim. In the political system that is recognized by the Empire, Jarls can challenge the ruling High King - even Torygg recognized this as High King.

 

 

Ulfric and his followers have a god-complex over other races. Their inferior to the Nords, so their traditions are irrelevant.

 

When does Ulfric state this? People seem to continually use this against Ulfric, but no one ever cites any examples to illustrate that Ulfric actually believes this.

 

 

I'm not too sure what you mean by that. The Dark Brotherhood has the listener assassinate the Emperor for gold. That just seems like a basic conspiracy murder- here.... nothing to talk about...

 

By a member of the Elder Council who wanted the Emperor dead. Clearly, the political system of the Empire can involve as much bloodshed as the Nordic system. In fact, the Listener can kill more people getting to the Emperor than Ulfric does in simply challenging Torygg to a duel over the throne.

 

 

Talos's legacy isn't his religion. Talos's legacy is the Empire - creating civilization in Tamerial, to cradle humankind. Without Talos, humans would be nothing but neolithic Normads.

 

So far, the Empire has protected this idea by signing a Treaty with the Thalmor - however Ulfric's arrogance challenges this...

 

You realize that human civilizations existed long before Talos, right? Even Tamriel had humans living there before the Nords occupied Skyrim. Talos established the Septim Empire, which is effectively gone since Martin ended the Oblivion Crisis. Now the Empire is in a subservient position to the Dominion, and Ulfric sees an alternative through making Skyrim independent of the Empire.

 

 

Jarl Igmund doesn't dispute the fact Ulfric ethnically cleansed the people from the Reach, he just says it in a nicer way. The existence of the Forsworn isn't just some magical coincidence. It's strong evidence of Ulfric's crimes against humanity.

 

Jarl Igmund doesn't make any claims of ethnic cleansing by anyone - Ulfric or the Legion. The Forsworn want their territory back. It's simply evidence that the Reachmen don't want to live under Nordic rule. There's no evidence that confirms that Ulfric or the Empire committed any crimes against the Reachmen.

 

 

This is a gray area. Some people also say that Ulfric got a militia to remove the native people from Reach. Even more so, I doubt the Empire gave him the green light to commit genocide. Even so, he went too far.

 

By "some people," you mean everyone who is actually living in the Reach. No person actually disputes this account - one of the Reachmen says this is what happened, the Jarl of Markarth says this is what happened (and he was there since the Forsworn killed his father when he tried to negotiate with the Forsworn), and the only source disputing these events is one book by an author who wasn't actually privy to what really happened.

 

Again, there's no evidence that any genocide took place. All you're doing is citing a book that is apparently factually inaccurate, according to multiple sources who were living in the Reach at the time and have no reason to lie on Ulfric's behalf when Markarth is currently alligned to the Legion and the Empire.

 

 

Religious freedom? Worshiping Talos only became an issue when Ulfric caused a uproar about it. Until then, people could quietly worship Talos, and they still do ex. the Jarl of Solitude. Although, is religious freedom worth destroying every aspect of civilized society? Are you sure you're with Ulfric to move from a more democratic government to a theocracy? I don't think so.

 

No, the Empire offered Ulfric religious freedom in Markarth, and then betrayed him when the Thalmor found out - this was the inception of the Stormcloak rebellion. The Empire and Skyrim have no real democracy - it's either the Emperor and the Elder Council, or the High King and the Jarls. Neither is a democracy when the nobility are ruling over the people.

 

 

It saved the Empire and it's people. I see more people alive than people in Thalmor prison camps.

 

Also, I don't see the Thalmor making Internment camp; they kidnap people who provide information, not for the sake of just doing it. However, that doesn't justify it.

 

The Thalmor can kidnap anyone they want to. When you listen to some of the Stormcloaks talking, it's mentioned that family members had disappeared because the Thalmor took them. Even Hadvar's uncle (who supports the Empire) mentions this as a problem. The Justiciars will kill someone simply for saying that he or she has the right to "worship whoever I want."

 

 

However, the Empire did save lives , but some sacrifices must be made for the greater good.

 

Plus, the Empire is a ceasefire with the Thalmor, according to General Tillus who questions alliance of Thalmor, hinting they're gearing up to defeat them once and for all.

 

Tullis' opinion of the situation doesn't mean that the Empire is planning anything. Maybe they are, but we don't really know for sure.

 

 

They're living in his city, for now, but how long will that last? Ulfric isn't the offical High King yet, so maybe when he become High King, he'll have the support he needs to remove them all from Skyrim.

 

Argonians are forced to live OUTSIDE of Windhelm. This is comfirmed by Brunwolf Free-Winter, who becomes the Jarl after Ulfric's death.If you speak the Argonians near the ports, they too confirm this. They even have a hole they're all force to live in outside the city walls. The city of Windhelm offers them no protection or food.

 

If Brunwolf becomes Jarl, the Argonians remain living on the docks, because the general Nord populace would likely attack or kill them. It has nothing to do with Ulfric. And Ulfric already controls Windhelm and is outside Legion control - he could remove the Dunmer if he wanted to, but he doesn't. And we can see at least one elven Stormcloak, so I don't get why everyone thinks that the Stormcloaks are exclusive to Nords only. Even the two belligerent Nords we encounter in Windhelm are upset that the Dunmer aren't joining the Stormcloaks!

 

 

Argonians and Dark Elfs face the parallel living conditions as Jewish ghettos during World War II in Windhelm. A walk through the Gray Quarter, and the docks is all the proof you need.

 

The Dunmer have been living in the Gray Quarter prior to Ulfric's reign as Jarl, and the Argonians live on the docks because the people throughout Nirn are generally racist. Racism can be seen in Morrowind, Oblivion, and now Skyrim. It's nothing new.

 

 

Wrong, he did remove Argonians from the city.

 

The Argonians never lived inside Windhelm.

 

 

Since High King Torggy mandated that Dunmer should be allowed to live in the city, he had no choice.

 

The Dunmer moved into Skyrim almost a century ago! The Dunmer who moved into what's now the Gray Quarter state that they left Morrowind after the eruption of Red Mountain, and the book "On the Great Collapse" is cited as a letter between the Arch-mage and the Jarl of Winterhold - Jarl Valdimar and Arch-Mage Deneth - about the eruption of Red Mountain possibly being responsible for the destruction of Winterhold (and also making reference to Dunmer being welcomed into Solstheim and Skryim), taking place over 80 years ago. The Great Collapse (which some blame on the Red Year) took place on 122 of the 4th Era, and the civil war takes place in 201 of the 4th Era.

 

 

However, when he becomes the official High King, he'll most likely reverse that decision. Yes, he does exterminate people from not being Nords. You're forgetting he does during his crusade for the Reach.

 

According to a book that is we know is factually inaccurate.

 

 

Even more so, he allows his army to kill neutral soldiers example - the Battle of Whiterun. Again, Ulfric shows people who don't align themselves with Nord supremacy must be exterminated.

 

The Stormcloaks are fighting against the Legion. Ulfric spares Jarl Balgruuf.

 

 

Of course Ulfric doesn't mind a non-nord protagonist. The protagonist is the DRAGONBORN, Talos was dragonborn. Of course he wants you on his side, as a cultural and warfare advantage.

 

He's just manipulating you.

 

Ulfric doesn't seem to mind other Stormcloaks being non-Nords, either.

 

 

However, Ulfric fought because he knew he was cornered like a rat.

 

The Emperor didn't, he accepted his fate.

 

The Emperor obviously is the more honorable here by accepting his fate.

 

Tullius, Ulfric, and Titus II all accept their fate at the end. Tullius and Ulfric fight, and a trap is set for the Dark Brotherhood with a decoy.

 

 

Of course, the Empire has plans to go war with the Thalmor - General Tillus hints this at the end of the civil war.

 

You mean Tullius provides his opinion about the Thalmor, and there's no evidence that the Empire plan on attacking the Thalmor. They may, or they may not. We don't know.

 

 

However, Ulfric definitely doesn't have the wisdom , or character to lead such a feat against the Thalmor. A leader as hypocritical , as himself , would only lead to more peril because of his blood-thirst for power.

 

Who's to say Ulfric isn't only after the Thalmor, but the world?

 

You mean, like the Empire, when the Legion troops contemplate if they'll be sent into Morrowind to take over now that they control Skyrim?

[ufw7]

However, Ulfric definitely doesn't have the wisdom , or character to lead such a feat against the Thalmor. A leader as hypocritical , as himself , would only lead to more peril because of his blood-thirst for power.

 

Who's to say Ulfric isn't only after the Thalmor, but the world?

 

Then maybe Ulfric is the next tiber septim and is this the beginning of the Stormcloack dynasty :ohmy:

Edited December 28, 2011 by ufw7

[Matth85]

You mean Tullius provides his opinion about the Thalmor, and there's no evidence that the Empire plan on attacking the Thalmor. They may, or they may not. We don't know.

That can be said for everything said so far. Did Ulfric murder anybody i Malkarth - or however it is spells? We don't know. They say he didn't, but we don't know. You see? Drop common sense and your own arguments dissapear.

 

No, with common sense we know they plan to attack the Thalmor. When the general himself hints it, it means it's a possibility. Then to add the fact the Empire is run by men, and human instincts. Common sense goes a long way.

 

The Empire will try to attack the Thalmor as much as the Stormcloaks. Who gets to attack depends on Dovahkiin.