Kayyyleb Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Galmar himself claims that you dont have to be a Nord to fight for Skyrim. The Nords value hard work and honesty. In Riften the Dark elves are treated very fairly. The ones in Windhelm are treated like sh*t because they do nothing. There are some who do work and there wealthy. Yeah I'm just stopping by to call this out as the complete bullshit it is. The Dunmer in Riften are treated better because the people in Riften aren't as racist as Windhelm. It's that simple. The Dunmer and Argonians in Windhelm are paid less for the same jobs as a Nord, aren't allowed to live outside the Grey Quarter (Argonians aren't even allowed in the city at all), the beloved Ulfric doesn't give a s#*! if Dunmer are attacked by bandits but immediately retaliates against attacks on Nords. Then you have drunken idiots (including Ulfric's own family) harassing the Dunmer for not helping the Stormcloaks like Ulfric's little war is any of their business. Any attempted rationalization for the mistreatment of the non-Nords in Windhelm by the Stormcloaks is destroyed when you see the Imperial outcome in that city. It's an improvement across the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighkingUlfricStormcloak Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 (edited) Oh thats humorous because if you read "Scourge of the Grey Quarter" than you would understand. But as you being a Pro Imperial I understand that you don't do research or read in game books. Ya the Nords a racist but so are the Elves. So are the Argonians. Everyone is except maybe Kahjiits. (However its spelled). The Dark elves in Windhelm (The ones that just b&@*$) dont get sh*t bacause they dont do sh*t. The ones that work however dont b*tch about the Nords did you notice that. They have nice houses, they have money. A dark elf who works on a farm is rich. "The only way for us to earn the Nords respect is through hard work." Niranye and Nurilion in Windhelm are treated just fine and they are elves. But they work. The brothers of the elves who dont work complain about their brothers b*tching. This isnt really proof of anything. Your arguments invalid. Im sure in Morrowind (Whats left of it) the Dunmer dont give two sh*ts about the Nords there. Look at Solstheim. All in all everyone has reason to be cautious. The Nords call the Dark elves imperial spies but if you go into the "New Nisis corner club" you'll find a set of imperial armor. Oddly enough that tells me something. The people of different races that dont need to complain about the Nords seem to be the ones that work. The ones that b*tch are lazy and dont do sh*t. Niranye and Nurilion live outside that Grey Quarter. Edited February 18, 2013 by Stormcloak117 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidbossVyers Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Also, for practicality's sake, I really don't think there are any other house vacanies for anyone (though that might be a game-play mechanic). Even if you are a Nord fighting for any side, the only house you are offered is the murder house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayyyleb Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Oh thats humorous because if you read "Scourge of the Grey Quarter" than you would understand. But as you being a Pro Imperial I understand that you don't do research or read in game books. Oh ok we're playing that kind of game, eh? I'm gonna be lectured on bias by the guy with "Stormcloak" in his name. Ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighkingUlfricStormcloak Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Ya. Thats how it works. I'm here to throw down. Not dance on a pile of lilies. And I'm not lecturing you on bias. I know you're bias. You know I'm bias. But I'm willing to admit to the flaws in my camp, the question is - are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kayyyleb Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 (edited) Stormcloak117, on 18 Feb 2013 - 16:56, said:Ya. Thats how it works. I'm here to throw down. Not dance on a pile of lilies. And I'm not lecturing you on bias. I know you're bias. You know I'm bias. But I'm willing to admit to the flaws in my camp, the question is - are you?You're not here to "throw down" you're here to sit on a high horse and shout down anyone who thinks differently. There's equal justification for both sides of the war depending on which values a person holds in priority. You don't admit the flaws in your argument, you rationalize them with whatever excuses you can come up with and if someone doesn't bite apparently you move on to mocking someone for not reading 100% of the lore (or deciding it doesn't favor your side like you think it does). Well I'm sorry, some of us have jobs and families and/or just don't feel the need to read every little book in the game before we choose a side in the Civil War. You're right about one thing though: you are biased. Someone could come here with the end-all crushing argument in favor of the Empire and you'll still be a Stormcloak fanboy. You've practically turned Stormcloak into a religious dogma and you're on here just begging someone to disagree with you so you can pummel them with your endless 1 sentence long paragraphs. But you've devolved to the point of excusing Stormcloak racism just because "everyone else does it too!". Right there is where you showed your true colors. That's like saying the Confederates weren't racist, they had a couple black soldiers! It's a double standard. You can't have it both ways. But it's not about being right or even consistent, it's about being a salesman. There's not necessarily anything wrong with that, I couldn't care less what you say honestly. But don't go pretending it's about having an objective debate. Because you repeatedly demonstrate that it's not. Edited February 19, 2013 by Kayyyleb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighkingUlfricStormcloak Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 (edited) Okay thats fine. Think of me however you like. I've given up on formalities. And yes I enjoy the "Enter" button. The point isnt that I want everyone to read all the books. I want everyone to look at both sides. I used to be an Imperial but then I took the time to learn about the Stormcloaks and look at me now. I'm not excusing the racism. I'm pointing out that they aren't the only ones like everyone thinks. Yes the Stormcloaks are blatantly prejudice and if not that then it's racist but I'm saying they have reason to be. EnterEnter I look at it objectively but I also actively defend Stormcloak arguments. I'm, yes, trying to turn Imperials into Stormcloaks but not alone. And yes Stormcloaks aren't f*cking perfect but were not nearly as bad as the Imperials. (Imperials being in the Empire not the race) I will defend what things I can and if I cant then i'll not argue against it. So please find something I cant deny and I'll let you have it. -Ulfric is all Nord and only Nord-We Stormcloaks are a little high and mighty-The Nord way is our way-We defend Nord ideals-We want others to work for us-We don't like elves at all-Argonians aren't our favorite people (personally I don't mind them or Dunmer for that matter) -I'm an ass and very stubborn-I love debating and look forward to it-I have a job and a family-I'm fully aware of my bias and think it's nice If you're so willing to admit your flaws then admit them. This isn't about me, its about who's the side to side with. I wont attack anyone personally but they should return the favor. I'll point out if you have a fact wrong and I'll do it publicly. You can try and say I have a fact wrong (I have been as honest as I can be) which I probably have a few wrong but I'll accept that and have a rebuttal. So expect for me to retaliate. Edited February 19, 2013 by Stormcloak117 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntsman2310 Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 ^ Can't we all just admit that this is a situation where both sides are morally grey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer81 Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 (edited) @Kayyyleb So... anytime you have a "Great War" there is going to be fallout. And if you follow this up with a revolution, it's going to be even worse. Many of the Stormcloaks fought in the Great War and it's these same people who are really, really mad at how the Empire has rewarded them and their country. I don't blame them. The thing is, we just want the ability to not have "strangers wearing familiar faces" telling us what is best for us. This is what it comes down to. There are some good Imperials from the war who are still with the Empire. There are some good things about keeping the Empire together. The fact that it's a unified Empire is one thing the Thalmor don't want. Another thing, if Dragonborn is of Talos's line, then there is indeed hope for the Empire. Especially if Hammerfell could be persuaded to return. This all sounds so very nice but I seriously doubt it will ever happen. Even if it does, you still have to decide what is best for Tamriel... the Empire or Independence. There are pros and cons to each side, there is truth to each side. Personally, I really do not trust the Empire. However, I'm very sad that joining Ulfric pits me against Jarl Baalgruf. I happened to like him. It's a very, very difficult choice but either way, good people are going to get HURT. Edited February 20, 2013 by StormHammer81 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighkingUlfricStormcloak Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Thats more or less the point of the debate really. @ Huntsman2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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