StormHammer81 Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 @kradus No, and no. What do you mean by 3 front war? What's stopping the dominion armies from moving to hammerfell after plundering Cyrodill, especially since they are easely supplied by sea?Why do you think the stormcloaks are in any way strong, after fighting a rebellion on equal footing against a single legion?What on earth makes you think that Stormcloaks + Hammerfell have the advantage against the Dominion, after what happened to the legions in the great war? Should Skyrim secede, she would be on her own and it would be a cofllict of interest for the Imperial remnant to ally with Ulfric. Skyrim maybe, but we will not cooperate with Ulfric or any of the Stormcloak leadership. It also forgone conclusion that Hammerfell would ally itself with Ulfric OR The Empire should it survive. More likely either side will be on it's own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kradus Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Yes the single mindness of the Imperial war machine that lost a thirty year war, got a chief god in it's pantheon outlawed, betrayed the loyalty of one of the most loyal nations in it's makeup, and made another questions it's own loyalty is obviously unbeatable... Hammerfell was able to push out Aldmeri Occupation that was entrenched in their lands before... And this was after the WGC was put into effect thus meaning they stood alone against the full attention of Aldmeri over a five year period. Lost what 30 year war? And legion =/= politics. If you're reffering to the Dominion nearly beating the empire in the great war, that only shows how powerfull the Dominion is, considering it was also comprised of nords and redguards. The Vietname stood alone against the full attention of the US army, and the US hadn't just lost a large chunk of its forces, like the AD did. Plus, you metioned terrain, Why is this not a valid argument now? The AD wasn't defeated, in fact, as stated before in the thread, they couldn't just keep figthing a guerrila war while the empire was building back its forces, ence the retreat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighkingUlfricStormcloak Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) 3 fronts are harder than one. Hm, that math was hard. The AD would have to split its forces into 3 parts, which weakens each force and the amount of pressure you can apply to each of the 3 forces drastically. Hammerfell shows that they know how to fight the Thalmor. They have experience. The Stormcloaks fought the AD in the great war and destroyed its army. The Stormcloaks are very strong. They hadnt truly started the war until the Dovahkiin enlists. Galmar makes that clear. The Stormcloaks are made up of angry Nords and disgruntled legionnaires who fought the AD in the great war and survived. Such men are Brunwulf Free Winter, Vignar Greymane, Skjorr, Ulfric, Galmar, Thorvald Greymane, and many others. So the Stormcloaks could easily take the fight to the AD. Ulfric is waiting and giving Skyrim time to heal before he rallies the troops and marches on Alinor. The Stormcloaks will cooperate with Ulfric, the Jarls agree and feel the same as him on that subject. So theres no doubt in my mind that the Stormcloaks are capable. Overall the Empire will be forced into another war with the Dominion but will not succeed unfortunately. While the Dominion sends some of its forces into Cyrodiil it will need to splinter its forces to fight in Hammerfell and Skyrim, assuming Ulfric doesnt attack first. If he does it might (Might) catch the elves off guard and force them to have to relocate their forces from Valenwood and defend against Ulfric, exhausting the army and catching them off guard. The AD is ready for another fight but not against 3 provinces at once. It barely survived the Great War. Against mainly Nords. Edited February 27, 2013 by Stormcloak117 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighkingUlfricStormcloak Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) Also the Empire has no leadership. The Emperor just was assassinated and now its a power struggle. In the past the Elder Council failed at running the Empire then Titus Mede took it over by force. The Empire cant lead the next war if it doesnt have a leader. Edited February 27, 2013 by Stormcloak117 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echoside Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 Yes the single mindness of the Imperial war machine that lost a thirty year war, got a chief god in it's pantheon outlawed, betrayed the loyalty of one of the most loyal nations in it's makeup, and made another questions it's own loyalty is obviously unbeatable... Hammerfell was able to push out Aldmeri Occupation that was entrenched in their lands before... And this was after the WGC was put into effect thus meaning they stood alone against the full attention of Aldmeri over a five year period. Lost what 30 year war? And legion =/= politics. If you're reffering to the Dominion nearly beating the empire in the great war, that only shows how powerfull the Dominion is, considering it was also comprised of nords and redguards. The Vietname stood alone against the full attention of the US army, and the US hadn't just lost a large chunk of its forces, like the AD did. Plus, you metioned terrain, Why is this not a valid argument now? The AD wasn't defeated, in fact, as stated before in the thread, they couldn't just keep figthing a guerrila war while the empire was building back its forces, ence the retreat. My bad wrong game... :P How do you think the Empire, who is also fighting Skyrim in a civil war and has lost 1/4 of it's army makeup, is gonna beat a well rested Aldmeri Dominion? Terrain can only do so much a Cyrodill doesn't have much in the way of terrain advantages. You forget that the Redguard had also lost a lot of men too. The Aldmeri were getting entrenched there and the Redguards were fighting them on the homefront while still managing to help the Imperials. Then they were betrayed by the Empire and managed to break AD entrenchment in 5 years. I doubt next time they'll be so helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echoside Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 3 fronts are harder than one. Hm, that math was hard. The AD would have to split its forces into 3 parts, which weakens each force and the amount of pressure you can apply to each of the 3 forces drastically. Hammerfell shows that they know how to fight the Thalmor. They have experience. The Stormcloaks fought the AD in the great war and destroyed its army. The Stormcloaks are very strong. They hadnt truly started the war until the Dovahkiin enlists. Galmar makes that clear. The Stormcloaks are made up of angry Nords and disgruntled legionnaires who fought the AD in the great war and survived. Such men are Brunwulf Free Winter, Vignar Greymane, Skjorr, Ulfric, Galmar, Thorvald Greymane, and many others. So the Stormcloaks could easily take the fight to the AD. Ulfric is waiting and giving Skyrim time to heal before he rallies the troops and marches on Alinor. The Stormcloaks will cooperate with Ulfric, the Jarls agree and feel the same as him on that subject. So theres no doubt in my mind that the Stormcloaks are capable. Overall the Empire will be forced into another war with the Dominion but will not succeed unfortunately. While the Dominion sends some of its forces into Cyrodiil it will need to splinter its forces to fight in Hammerfell and Skyrim, assuming Ulfric doesnt attack first. If he does it might (Might) catch the elves off guard and force them to have to relocate their forces from Valenwood and defend against Ulfric, exhausting the army and catching them off guard. The AD is ready for another fight but not against 3 provinces at once. It barely survived the Great War. Against mainly Nords. You forget the Aldmeri has three components, High Elves, Wood Elves, and Khajiit. Giving them three fronts to fight from also. Also Stormcloaks are of Ulfric's make after the Great War not during or before. Brunwulf Free Winter is against Ulfric policies for the record. And Skyrim has no easy or quick way of attacking the AD without crossing other countries or risking long sea voyages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighkingUlfricStormcloak Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 The thing about it is the Empire isnt capable of fighting another war and winning. No one seems to argue against my statement that the Emperor is dead. Because its canon. The Empire has had its head and arms cut off. It is now too weak to do anything. The legion cant act on its own so they wont really be able to bring the fight to the AD. And Nows its the perfect time for it to attack the Empire. Stab it in the heart and rip it out. When I said Stormcloaks I meant, individual soldiers that are now Stormcloaks. Sorry, I should have been more clear on that part. And Brunwulf was just an example of a Great War vet. Im assuming that the Nords will either meet the Dominion Cyrodiil or in Skyrim. But I could be completely wrong on that part. Bethesda likes to keep us on our toes after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Echoside Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 The thing about it is the Empire isnt capable of fighting another war and winning. No one seems to argue against my statement that the Emperor is dead. Because its canon. The Empire has had its head and arms cut off. It is now too weak to do anything. The legion cant act on its own so they wont really be able to bring the fight to the AD. And Nows its the perfect time for it to attack the Empire. Stab it in the heart and rip it out. When I said Stormcloaks I meant, individual soldiers that are now Stormcloaks. Sorry, I should have been more clear on that part. And Brunwulf was just an example of a Great War vet. Im assuming that the Nords will either meet the Dominion Cyrodiil or in Skyrim. But I could be completely wrong on that part. Bethesda likes to keep us on our toes after all. No one argues your statement about the death of the Emperor because until the next game comes out and we see what paths the Dovahkiin walked we won't know what canon is. However, I would think Oblivion showed that the death of an Emperor is not the death of the Empire. The Nords lost against the AD forces with Bretons, Redguards, and Imperials battling with them. What makes you think that them standing alone will give them a power boost? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kradus Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) Stormcloak117, on 27 Feb 2013 - 03:00, said:3 fronts are harder than one. Hm, that math was hard. The AD would have to split its forces into 3 parts, which weakens each force and the amount of pressure you can apply to each of the 3 forces drastically. Hammerfell shows that they know how to fight the Thalmor. They have experience. The Stormcloaks fought the AD in the great war and destroyed its army. The Stormcloaks are very strong. They hadnt truly started the war until the Dovahkiin enlists. Galmar makes that clear. The Stormcloaks are made up of angry Nords and disgruntled legionnaires who fought the AD in the great war and survived. Such men are Brunwulf Free Winter, Vignar Greymane, Skjorr, Ulfric, Galmar, Thorvald Greymane, and many others. So the Stormcloaks could easily take the fight to the AD. Ulfric is waiting and giving Skyrim time to heal before he rallies the troops and marches on Alinor. The Stormcloaks will cooperate with Ulfric, the Jarls agree and feel the same as him on that subject. So theres no doubt in my mind that the Stormcloaks are capable. Overall the Empire will be forced into another war with the Dominion but will not succeed unfortunately. While the Dominion sends some of its forces into Cyrodiil it will need to splinter its forces to fight in Hammerfell and Skyrim, assuming Ulfric doesnt attack first. If he does it might (Might) catch the elves off guard and force them to have to relocate their forces from Valenwood and defend against Ulfric, exhausting the army and catching them off guard. The AD is ready for another fight but not against 3 provinces at once. It barely survived the Great War. Against mainly Nords. But why? Why would the Dominion stupidly splinter its forces when it can overwhelm each army in full force? That assumption makes no sence whatsoever. Gengis Khan and Alexander the great amongst others, conquered by keeping a single army on the move, beating the enemy as one. That's how it works, the dominion wouldn't just break its own army appart to give its enemy a chance at victory. I dont even understand how you could think of such a thing. Are you so short of arguments? Edited February 27, 2013 by kradus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighkingUlfricStormcloak Posted February 27, 2013 Share Posted February 27, 2013 (edited) The AD has many, many enemies and its too much for them to handle. Even with 3 provinces. Valenwood kinda doesnt like the Thalmor so much. They f*cked with the Bosmer and pissed them off. Atleast half of them. The Khajiits were tricked into the AD and havent provided much in the means of Military strength. All in all its about even. The AD has summerset isles and the Nords have Skyrim. Hammerfell will not give in to the AD. The Empire will get sucked into the next war because the Elves want the Empire dead. And nice assumption. No Im not out of arguments. Nice job attacking me rather than actually making a point. The Thalmor will be forced to fight on 3 fronts if they attack the Empire, the Nords will then in turn attack Alinor and the Redguards will harass them at sea. Splintering isnt tactically the best move. Thats the point I was making. It would force them into losing. If they keep a singular force they will fight the Empire and be weakened, then Hammerfell and will be weakened, then Skyrim and be to weak to just steam roll over everyone. Why do you believe so much that the AD has some massive army that can kill everyone in Tamriel? Edited February 27, 2013 by Stormcloak117 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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