3Ds Max VS Blender

[Skybroom]

You see, my goal is to master the skills of editing models (body, armor meshes) on my own. I've been googling on this topic for a quite a long time already. I've given a try to both 3Ds Max and Blender. I can't boast any attainments, but importing a black model into Blender, or a blank one into 3Ds Max )) So I've got myself stuck on the very first step.

 

Too many obscure questions I faced, and could not find answers so far.

If some one would be so kind to point me the right direction to move...

 

Well, the first question is:

 

What's the difference between 3Ds Max and Blender, I mean could one of them be considered more appropriate for a noob as I am?

 

I know, for example, that importing nif files to Blender means some properties' editing in NifSkope. I seem to follow the guide on this matter, but as I told I just have a black model in Blender, which is too difficult to work with.

 

The very installing of 3Ds Max, on the other hand, appeares to be much problematic to me.

 

I've heard only the 2012 version of 3Ds Max Nifskope Plugin is appropriate for Skyrim (and the very 3Ds Max verson as well). Is it true or not, but after installation the 2015 version failed to open textures, so I have a blank model to work with. I got nervous and uninstalled the application. Meanwhile, the 2012 version won't install on my computer, I get the error message - that's it. Now which version should I choose?

 

So, all this stuff turned to be incredibly time-consuming. Please, share your knowledge, maybe some experience, maybe some thoughts. Thank you.

[redrakiton125]

If you want to edit meshes create animations and have a real good supply of tutorials then 3ds Max is the way to go.

 

https://github.com/niftools/blender_nif_plugin/issues

 

Also blender is harder to learn, because the majority of tools are hidden and you will use mainly only the keyboard shortcuts.

 

Also the plugin has a lot of problems to export to nif.

 

Have a nice day

[baduk]

Hi

 

Its really good to learn all this stuff and start making everything just how u want it.

 

I have no experience with 3dsmax at the moment. gota use it tho cause u can export collision with that. everything else, blender works tho thanks to various tools and stuff.

 

Currently im making armor stuff. anyway to import an armor with blender 2.49b u want to:

 

use nifskope version 1.1.0 with the skyrim nif.xml from throttlekitty

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/3790/?

In nif header change nif version from 12 to 11 and 83 to 34

delete the bslightingshaderproperty blocks from all the geometry nodes.

import the nif with default settings for fallout 3 with nifscripts 2.5.9 except for u want to turn off stripify trishapes.

Install first this modification for nifscripts to get enough bones in a partition and reduce amount of nifskoping.

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/45355/?

 

For exporting u want to assign the dismemberment partition vertex group for your item as a fallout 3 nif. then export it with default settings for fallout 3

open with nifskope 1.1.0 and change nif versions back to 12 and 83

next part i really dont understand why, i should have tested this really but..

you edit scene root to have 0 children and then delete scene root. Maybe the modified nifscripts and stuff makes it so u dont have to do this. probly good to test.

save nif and open nif in nifskope 1.2.0 alpha 2.

you have installed the modified nif.xml for this nifskope.

in the nitrishape block details u turn off vertex colors unless u got vertex colors. turn off normals if the nitrishape is going to use flesh body shader settings.

now you can change the dismemberment partition vertex group names to skyrim ones in the bsdismemberskininstance.

Add the bslightingshaderproperties to the geometry nodes.

add the bsshadertextureset and add that to the bslightingshaderproperty. u can assign the textures.

Adjust the shader flags where appropriate, u can look other nifs to find em. flesh body is different, etc.

Add other stuff like nialphaproperty where appropriate.

add a ninode to the nif and call it scene root. giving it the right number of children, updating the array and adding the child nodes. set flags to 14

 

look nif over, sanitize it, remove a bogus nodes, like unskinned bones and save nif.

If outfit go ahead and use bodyslide to make the skinny version. for weight slider. male nifs u will need to convert a male body into bodyslide if there is none.

The reason is that if you export both fat and thin versions of nif from blender you will probably have different vertex order, and weight slider will not work.

 

There is probably male bodys for bodyslide tho i would guess.

 

http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/62065/?

You should try anton0028 tools tho for blender. It has everything u need for working with nifs in blender 2.77 and it should be faster and easier to use. and blender 2.77 is better than 2.49b.

The meshinjector has some thing where it creates a uvmap tho and i would prefer to disable such a thing. i think u can disable it . why not. it injects an obj file into the nitrishape node obj will contain uvmap already.

Skininjector allows u to export a skin data as text file and then into the bsdismemberskininstance.

U can even export animations with those tools.

I used the tri tools alot and those work like a dream.

Anyway im planning to switch to this way even tho im familiar with the other one.

 

U may find other tools on loverslab.

 

There is alot to lern tho about what u are doing and what stuff is. u gota know what is a uv map and normals and whats a diffuse map, normalmap, specular map etc. what is skin?(skin is the vertex groups named after bones telling which vertices move and how much they move for bones during animation) has nothing to do with textures.

what is this and that.. its kindof alot. I recently wrote a reply to someone detailing a bunch of different concepts. to help understanding.

 

https://www.loverslab.com/topic/65463-questions-about-character-modding-technicalities-body-skeleton-textures-etc/

 

Anyway. i hope it all works out for u to be making great stuff.

[Skybroom]

I have a great deal of fresh ideas on clothing my puppets, be sure.

I highly appreciate your, guys, attention.

Well, all these details - that's a cool stuff.

But I can't figure out the right combination of tools to start with. Versions, plugins etc.

I need those bloody nifs to be imported properly.

Currently I am having a really nice days being at the war with Blender 2.77. I seem to have everything I need, but the model is black and it turnes me crazy.

http://imgdepo.com/id/i9612850.jpg

 

I find it strange there is no settings to me like these:

http://imgdepo.com/id/i9612101.jpg

 

Tho they seem to have been once...

I need to comprehend: is this just a settings which I don't know how to change (smth like User Preferences), or kind of an incompleteness and I need some plugins to be installed.

[redrakiton125]

Use blender version 2.77a, you are using blender 2.49(old version hard to work with)

[baduk]

The tools u show in top image are blender nifscripts latest version and in 2.77.

 

Since 2.49b works for me as I have exactly described for skyrim in previous post.

 

I have had no reason to try to use the nifscripts 2.6 for newer blender. It works differently tho.

You have to set the different settings for the nif in menus spread out through the interface.

It is probably harder to learn to use but more convenient when you are familiar with it.

It is not clear how well this version supports skyrim because niftools supports many different games.

Many gamebryo games exist in world.

 

And to clarify my first post yes i did mention you should use 2 different versions of nifskope at different stages.

 

So if u follow my directions for 2.49b it will work, If u want to use 2.77 you should check out the toolspack from anton0028 in the link above. His tools do not import nif directly, it imports data to blender and back out of blender but in separate parts.

[freddagg]

I will chime in here. I use Blender - one it's free, two it's well supported, three it's open source and anybody with the right skill set can add stuff to it. I kinda like that sort of software as it not a "closed shop, you shall pay my demanded price" sort of thing.

 

I have both 2.49 and 2.72 versions. I have been doing as Old Hand described for many years and although tedious, it works just fine. Once you get that down pat, just need then to learn how to alter the nif files, copy/paste branches between open windows etc.

 

But in saying that. Blender 2.72 is just way way more powerful despite the fact it doesn't work to well with Skyrim (and that is not a Blender issue). It would be nice if we could just support the developers of the NIF tools enough to make the import / export things work better and in an easier way.

 

Many people say Blender is hard to use, however it is used in schools throughout the world. I think "hard to learn" is just a relative thing. Blender is not Windowseey or Autodeskeey in its interface and long term computer users can find it strange. The interface is designed to be flexible and extensible and in that lies the power of open source software.

 

I use Fusion 360 as my main 3d CAD program as it is heading in a similar direction and Autodesk are really opening up to the public now with great forums and feedback and help - way better than the closed shop they used to have, however I seriously doubt they will ever support any specific games with Autodesk supplied tools - though they can currently support any generic mesh files without issue.

 

The NIF file import / export is the common ground. That is going to be the limiter. 3d Max is good, Blender is good but they work with the mesh and that is the reason for their existance.

 

Because Skyrim is one of the most popular and supported games on the planet, we somehow need to get more support for interfacing between the existing or new NIF files and these mainstay mesh manipulating programs.

 

My 10 cents worth.

[Skybroom]

 

If outfit go ahead and use bodyslide to make the skinny version. for weight slider. male nifs u will need to convert a male body into bodyslide if there is none.

Now, they say 2.72 is good )) 2.49; 2.72; 2.77... I am dizzy. Btw when I tried installing different versions they seemed to "overwrite" one another. Shortly I have not found the way to install two Blender versions simultaneously (hope you understand me).

Besides, tho the Blender software is "free", there's a geat mess with (of - correct me, please) download links. e.g. Blender 2.49b: Download Link - I really couldn't download from this link. So I am frustrated, I am afraid to loose what I have.

 

Well, about the quote, do you mean the CBBE Bodyslide (BS)?

http://imgdepo.com/id/i9616874.jpg

 

Is it diificult to convert a male body into bodyslide ? That would be great, tho I have not used BS at all yet.

[Skybroom]

 

But in saying that. Blender 2.72 is just way way more powerful despite the fact it doesn't work to well with Skyrim (and that is not a Blender issue). It would be nice if we could just support the developers of the NIF tools enough to make the import / export things work better and in an easier way.

That is the pain point. While watching some of those tutorials on Blender\NifSkope manipulations - all of them rather aged, - I've noticed the authors said kinda "It doesn't support Skyrim (meshes) well so far, but it will support it soon". When will they happy times come?

[redrakiton125]

If you want animations modifiers applied in real time, explosions particles, blood and so on in blender you will have to wait a long time for the support to come, also you have 3 years free of 3dsmax if you are a student.

 

There are a lot of tutorials to follow to get you started and the interface is easier and more UI based then in blender.

 

For example in blender you have a to create a mesh go in edit mode then you would actually look for a menu to work with edges but they don't use that they use ctrl+e to get an edge menu.

 

Blender is very good when you can work with cycles bot blender render and has a lot of potential but there are not a lot of tutorials to follow, you will have to watch 3dsmax tuts and then think how to use them in blender Good luck.