If Sarah Lyons was in Fallout 4

[CiderMuffin]

 

The bias is real. There is literally no mention of any Outcast attack on the citadel nor any other kind of combat. The BoS aren't "baby killing" and the arrogance and xenophobia were always a key part of the BoS, even Lyons BoS had it.

 

Maybe you should spend time reading stuff up before making bullcrap up. Seriously, if you can't come up with an actual argument and go the route of "Everything I say is correct and just because we don't see doesn't mean it doesn't happen" maybe you're not suited for this discussion.

The Outcasts would never attack the Citedel directly. It's too heavily defended and dust ups aside, the Outcasts and Lyons' mostly ignore each other. The only I've ever seen them fight is if you dismiss Star Paladin Cross in front of Outcasts.

 

There's a difference between a direct attack and a conspiracy and a coup. I'm saying a conspiracy and coup are very likely. First most of the old guard would be against Lyon's vision but take orders anyway. Only a true Maverick or believer, Casdin is probably the latter, would dare to try and rebel, and I'm sure Lyon's decision to let them leave voluntarily won him no respect in an organization like the BoS. And yes there were a LOT of Outcast Sympathizers, Scribe Yearling comes to mind but there are other in overheard conversation. The Brotherhood rank and file are NOT happy being defenders of rock banging locals, this goes against all the ideals they were brought up with. The notion that Sarah Lyons was assassinated, even if it was raiders or supermutants that landed the killing blow, makes no difference. Because, if there was a conspiracy, Sarah Lyons had to without question die in battle. It's all really too convenient for an Elder to die in battle. When Sarah Lyons was number one troubleshooter, she was putting her life on the line everyday. That's not what Elders get paid for..

 

To not acknowledge the very suspicious manner of Lyon's death is to ignore the least subtle thing Bethesda has ever meant to be subtle about. It could be that' it was just a tragedy, but considering the enemies she would have made, and what they stood to gain from her death, this is no case closed affair. This is an open question, something Bethesda itself meant it to be.

 

There is no suspicious manner of Lyon's Death. He was an old man, people die from diseases and old age. Holy crap, there is literally LITERALLY nothing in game that even suggests his death was suspicious. There was no conspiracy, there was no hint of a conspiracy, every claim of a conspiracy is baseless claims with literally zero backing behind them.

 

It's like reading the obituaries and going "Died from lung cancer? NOPE ILLUMANTI" "Died from a car crash? MORE LIKE KILLED BY ALIENS!"

 

At this point Lyons's death is becoming the Fallout version of the Denver International Airport

Edited August 29, 2016 by CiderMuffin

[Stygs]

I think he is talking about Sarah Lyons Death, not Elder Lyon.

 

Considering all the things Sarah survived and that Elders normaly dont fight in the field (and always would have guards with them), a death by supermutants seems rather unusual and lame.

 

But since the game never follows up on this topic in any way, its kinda moot to discuss.

Edited August 29, 2016 by Stygs

[CiderMuffin]

I think he is about Sarah Lyons Death, not Elder Lyon.

 

Considering all the things Sarah survived and that Elders normaly dont fight in the field (and always would have guards with them), a death by supermutants seems rather unusual and lame.

 

But since the game never follows up on this topic in any way, its kinda moot to discuss.

There are soldiers that survive an entire war but end up dying the last battle. There is no guarantee survival for a soldier on the field and that was what Sarah was. Hell, look at Roger Maxson. Founder of the Brotherhood and lead the entire group from Mariposa to Lost Hills right after the Great War ended but ended up dying from a poison arrow from a Viper attack because he took off his helmet for a minute. No conspiracy or anything, just died from a war injury.

 

Soldiers die, no matter if they're rookies or veterans. This is what happens in wars.

[iXenite]

Well, one theory is that Casdin actually did orchestrate the demise of Sarah, and perhaps even her father and maybe a few of the other possible candidates such as Star Paladin Cross fer instance.

 

Lets' face it, they didn't exactly come across as "good guys" at the end of Operation Anchorage. They pretty much behaved, just as Maxim (and the rest of the BOS bucket heads) do now I just can't bring myself to enjoy playing the BOS path in FO4, they are all just such a bunch of arrogant, condescending a$$holes.

 

I didn't mind the BOS in FO:NV, they were arrogant, and standoffish, but they were open-ish to outsiders, and they certainly weren't the baby murderers that Bugthesda has turned them into

 

 

Only Fallout 3 had the BoS take on the role of the "Knight in Shining Armor". They have always been no better then a bunch of bullies with fancy weapons and armor, according to the lore. Even New Vegas paints that picture of them. One of the endings of New Vegas in regards to the BoS show how they resume their above ground operations and are essentially highwaymen, stealing any tech they deem unfit for the savage people of the Wasteland. They are not supposed to be saints. They aren't exactly evil, but they were never meant to be the "good guys" either. The Outcasts in Fallout 3 were the real Brotherhood, and they even tell you that in the game. Just saying.

[RS13]

I don't understand why people think she died off screen. She was plenty onscreen when I pushed her ass into the magic water cleaner of death thingy.

[charwo]

 

I think he is about Sarah Lyons Death, not Elder Lyon.

 

Considering all the things Sarah survived and that Elders normaly dont fight in the field (and always would have guards with them), a death by supermutants seems rather unusual and lame.

 

But since the game never follows up on this topic in any way, its kinda moot to discuss.

There are soldiers that survive an entire war but end up dying the last battle. There is no guarantee survival for a soldier on the field and that was what Sarah was. Hell, look at Roger Maxson. Founder of the Brotherhood and lead the entire group from Mariposa to Lost Hills right after the Great War ended but ended up dying from a poison arrow from a Viper attack because he took off his helmet for a minute. No conspiracy or anything, just died from a war injury.

 

Soldiers die, no matter if they're rookies or veterans. This is what happens in wars.

 

 

You have a strange insistence on this point. And in life, this is true. However, we are talking about a story here, which has arcs and developments and such. I'm not saying there was a conspiracy to kill Sarah Lyons, there's little evidence either way. But it ain't a closed case by a long shot. Sarah Lyons had all the enemies her father had in the Brotherhood, and unlike Owen Lyons they couldn't count on waiting for her to die. Plus the fact that someone that young took up the Elder seat smacks of nepotism. The Brotherhood does do nepotism, but for Maxons only.

 

I'll go so far to say that it was a fortuitous accident that Lyons died so quickly after becoming Elder, I'll be content to say her enemies were content to pray for a resolution and the Lord answered their prayers. But I wouldn't be remotely surprised if there was a conspiracy. Hard Liners tend to do things like this, and in Arthur Maxon they had not only the boy king, but an impressionable puppet. Because make no mistake, Maxon sits on his throne because he has powerful backers who wish it so. Otherwise seniority would favor innumerable Paladins and a few Scribes ahead of him.

[CiderMuffin]

 

 

I think he is about Sarah Lyons Death, not Elder Lyon.

 

Considering all the things Sarah survived and that Elders normaly dont fight in the field (and always would have guards with them), a death by supermutants seems rather unusual and lame.

 

But since the game never follows up on this topic in any way, its kinda moot to discuss.

There are soldiers that survive an entire war but end up dying the last battle. There is no guarantee survival for a soldier on the field and that was what Sarah was. Hell, look at Roger Maxson. Founder of the Brotherhood and lead the entire group from Mariposa to Lost Hills right after the Great War ended but ended up dying from a poison arrow from a Viper attack because he took off his helmet for a minute. No conspiracy or anything, just died from a war injury.

 

Soldiers die, no matter if they're rookies or veterans. This is what happens in wars.

 

You have a strange insistence on this point. And in life, this is true. However, we are talking about a story here, which has arcs and developments and such. I'm not saying there was a conspiracy to kill Sarah Lyons, there's little evidence either way. But it ain't a closed case by a long shot. Sarah Lyons had all the enemies her father had in the Brotherhood, and unlike Owen Lyons they couldn't count on waiting for her to die. Plus the fact that someone that young took up the Elder seat smacks of nepotism. The Brotherhood does do nepotism, but for Maxons only.

 

I'll go so far to say that it was a fortuitous accident that Lyons died so quickly after becoming Elder, I'll be content to say her enemies were content to pray for a resolution and the Lord answered their prayers. But I wouldn't be remotely surprised if there was a conspiracy. Hard Liners tend to do things like this, and in Arthur Maxon they had not only the boy king, but an impressionable puppet. Because make no mistake, Maxon sits on his throne because he has powerful backers who wish it so. Otherwise seniority would favor innumerable Paladins and a few Scribes ahead of him.

 

It's true even in this. You're talking about making up a story out of thin air with zero evidence and ignoring facts. It IS a closed case because there is literally nothing to support the so called case. It's people literally making conspiracy theories out of nothing.

 

Soldiers die, just because this is a fictional setting doesn't make it any different.

[RS13]

 

But I wouldn't be remotely surprised if there was a conspiracy. Hard Liners tend to do things like this, and in Arthur Maxon they had not only the boy king, but an impressionable puppet. Because make no mistake, Maxon sits on his throne because he has powerful backers who wish it so. Otherwise seniority would favor innumerable Paladins and a few Scribes ahead of him.

 

 

It's only a conspiracy if Bethesda makes it so. And they aren't making it so in FO4. Do you really think that FO5 will have a scene where someone says, "oh, by the way, you remember that character from two games back--who could have died at the ending of fallout 3--well sometime between her non-death in that game and start of the previous game, there was a conspiracy to murder her and install this other guy... who might have died at the ending of the last game. Anyways I just wanted to fill you in on the irrelevant things that were happening hundreds of miles from here (and also each other) several decades ago. And that's because we here at Bethesda just love long pontifications about lore that stretch back to games which may be close to 15 years old by the time you're hearing this!"