Which faction is the best for humanity?

[TummaSuklaa]

To summarize:

 

1. Minutemen are straight-up good guys of the Commonweath. Think: Multiple Denzel Washingtons.
2. BoS are technology hoarders thinking they are the only ones capable of handling it, with one of the members being involved in an ironic twist.
3. Institute is Terminator-esque.

So..

If you are a good guy/want to play a good guy, because we all know usually, Beth forces you to ultimately be a bad guy, then playing on the minuteman side if for you.

If you like being in a military setting.. BoS has that covered.

If you want to be a terminator, go for the Institute.

 

 

 

 

I just wanted an excuse to say the Institute is just a bunch of Terminators.

[charwo]

The minuteman, assuming that you as their general don't turn out to be power hungry tyrant who institutes a military dictatorship. When you encounter them they have no central leadership structure and operate on a settlement by settlement basis, presumably in time as settlements would grow civilian governments would form and they would eventually become the police force or official military of each.They don't have the technology that other factions do but they don't kill you for seeking it or try to replace dissidents with synths so the civilians of each settlement would be free to rebuild society.

 

The institute are dicks, to be frank. A stereotypical group who sees their image of the future where they are the only ones there. Also apparently they've never watched or read any scifi or else they would know that their synths will naturally turn on them.

 

The Railroad is a reactive organization that would cease to exist along with the institute, they have one focus and it has nothing to do with improving quality of life or stabilizing the world.

 

The BoS of FO3 were a somewhat painfully altruistic group, the new guard are worse than the western groups and while they may keep everyone as relatively safe as they currently are they would hamper future growth.

Well the thing is, an organization like the BoS isn't going to integrate with civilian government; they didn't in NCR, and they understand from the war with NCR civilian government will not tolerate their ambitions for a tech monopoly. They also know they lost to NCR, and NCR even managed to overrun Navarro, which was probably as heavily defended as Adams Air Base in Broken Steel.

 

The BoS ARE the government. Elder Maxon's word is law, and if he rules with any kind of consent, it is sought, but never necessary. It's a dictatorship.

 

And resources are ALWAYS limited, Bill Gates can buy Argentina or Brazil, but not both. Maxon is working with far less. Expansion isn't the problem per se, it's going out 400 miles from DC to do it, when there's zero evidence anything between DC and Boston has already been pacified. Then consider the Prydwen itself; in an era of very limited resources, it would have been more prudent to build sailing ships with landing pads and sailed up the coast in a fleet. One ship is easily shot down, a fleet is not. The Prydwen is wasteful and vulnerable, and the fact the Brotherhood filled it with hydrogen instead of helium is unforgivable because helium is the chief product of fusion and thus relatively easy to come by.

 

Maxon is in the Commonwealth to Glory Hound. A city state (and DC would functionally be a city state) campaigning 400 miles away from its power base is basically what lost Athens the Peloponnesian War. It's so incredibly reckless Hitler would caution against it.

[TummaSuklaa]

Here we go.

[tartarsauce2]

to be honest, the institute has a bad rap, and is a technological power, given the BoS's focus on technology, I think it makes sense that they'd obsess over the institute
after all, if you had a tank, or army of walking tanks, you'd probably want to poke at the people who are developing rocket launchers and stop them, moreso than the people who are using pre-existing PIAT's that may or may not be replicable - AKA they're sure not making better weapons either at any rate

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PIAT
vs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPG-7
a meter is about 1.1 yards for conversion TLDR the RPG is a bit less than double the effective range and like 3 times the max range, payload is probably stronger
the BoS kinda wanted/needed to try to keep their technological advantage, even from a power for power's sake standpoint (especially from that standpoint actually) so the mere existence of a group that can share technology basically makes them irrelevant/removes their own advantage

in other words, the BoS views it as a matter of their very survival to kill off or destroy all competing technological groups
this also could potentially provide an interesting "ret-con" of their actual intentions for fighting the supermutants, ulterior to their stated goals
that said, it's always been kind of on the edge between altruism and paranoia, they started from the military after all, so it's not surprising
who knows, maybe it'd edge back to the other side of things moreso later

Edited August 30, 2016 by tartarsauce2

[Rebel4ever85]

Brotherhood of Steel is annoying as hell - We should have all the tech! Give us it or we will bash you! We will massacre any non human! - Not good guys...basically Tech thieves with power armor and laser guns. They help people by taking the tech away from them and shooting them if they resist. NCR gave them what they deserved at Helios One.

 

Institute is full of idiots. Really lets make people and enslave them...what was wrong with robots? Why make a biological thing to be a machine? Very 2 dimensional.

 

Minute Men - Band aid faction, just turn up and help people but without any real end game. They will never last long, minute things go bad everyone will jump ship again. They have no substance...compared to for example the NCR who have a government and structure and are able to help people much more.

 

Railroad - Lets help Synths...and ignore all the other problems. Honesly helping run away Synths is the biggest priority when people are being killed all over the place? There are so many much bigger problems out there.

 

 

Answer - None of them. They are all unstable/bad choices...in the Fallout games only the NCR has proven to good for everyone and is stable enough not to collapse at the first sign of trouble.

 

The Enclave is in an interesting place right now...if a smart person took over the lore they could come out to be a far less "evil" faction because they have been forced to adapt to the world. Anyone saying they are gone is wrong because there is loads of evidence in Fallout 3 Broken Steel DLC and New Vegas. However its likely not going to be the Enclave we know....they have to be recruiting from somewhere and they have to have somewhere the are building things like the Crawler base. I would love to see the Enclave as a "grey area" alternative to the Brotherhood of Steel.

Edited September 4, 2016 by Rebel4ever85

[Relativelybest]

In theory, the Institute are best equipped to rebuild the world. They could have done it a long time ago, given that they basically have Star Trek technology and an army of robot soldiers, except they are evidently run by an idiot. Frankly, I find the idea of destroying them very distasteful, as it's a waste of incredibly valuable resources.

 

Of course, given what it's already possible to do in the game as the player - and other stuff, like working electricity and water purifiers being standard, and the fact that even the damn raiders are literate - it kinda doesn't make sense that the Commonwealth is in as bad a shape as it is anyway. Two centuries should have been enough for everyone to strip Boston down for parts and build a whole new city, rather than resorting to living in old ruins or improvised shacks. Then there's the Automatron and Contraption Workshop DLCs, which makes it possible to build automated industrial machines. With enough elbow grease they could build a bunch of robots to run automated farms or gather resources - something I have already done in the game - and generally just clean the place up.

 

It's like the player character is the only one who isn't completely apathetic about the situation. (And the Mechanist, even though that didn't turn out so well.) But I digress.

 

In general, the problem isn't in the factions themselves but rather that they refuse to get along because most of them have unhealthy ideologies. The Institute needs to use their tech to actually make the world better, rather than messing with people who already live fairly terrible lives. It's very possible they could rid the Commonwealth of radiation, figure out how ghouls work and prevent them from going feral, and turn the super mutants friendly. They just can't be bothered.

 

The Brotherhood, while based on a good idea, are too zealous and close-minded: They could be very useful as a regulatory organization for preventing abuse of technology, and as a general military bulwark against the mutant threat until a more lasting solution can be found. Just, that would require them to genuinely care about other people. It's kinda sad they've turned more extremist since Fallout 3 - I get the feeling that with the right leader, they could be a force for good. They should allow technology to flourish, while serving as a reminder of how easily it can get out of hand.

 

The Minutemen are a force for good, but they are basically just regular people trying to keep it together. They don't actually have the resources or knowledge to fix everything that's wrong. They are however a good network for keeping the communities in their territories relatively safe, and encourages cooperation.

 

And the Railroad basically only exists because of how synths are being treated by everyone else, including their own creators. If the Institute and Brotherhood were more benevolent and peaceful with each other, and to the Commonwealth as large, there wouldn't really be a need for the Railroad.

 

What I would really like to do is take control of the Institute, revise their entire policy, go public and run some heavy public relations to calm everyone down, and then form an alliance with the other factions. The Minutemen would be easy, just go: "The Institute are on our side now, since we are lead by the same person and everything, so don't fire on the synths and everything will be fine. Here, have some cool new armor and guns. We'll basically be kicking all the raider ass now."

 

Then I'd tell the Railroad: "Hey, it's cool. We're not going to hunt you guys anymore, and I'm working on making things better for the synths. So, like, lets not shoot at each other anymore."

 

The Brotherhood would be troublesome, but it might be possible to at least establish a cease-fire and work together on fighting off the super mutants and raiders. In the long run, they might come around. Like I said, it seems to depend a bit on who is currently leading them. They probably need to replenish their numbers fairly regularly, so their policies are likely to sway over time. (Especially if, after a time, they would start getting members who are used to friendly synths.)

 

The ideal scenario is that the Institute provides technology and manpower in the form of synths, the Brotherhood make sure they stay in line while benefiting from upgraded tech, the Minutemen act as a kind of police force, and the Railroad work on human-synth relations.

 

Of course, it seems the story-line unfortunately doesn't actually allow that. Would really love a mod that made it possible.

 

 

The railroad puts the welfare of synths before people. That is evident by desdemona's refusal to Deacons request to help people and by allowing a synth to lead the raiders of libertalia. No progress for humanity under them

 

To be fair, helping synths is pretty much their entire thing. They care about synths because nobody else does, and given that they are constantly under attack and have very limited resources, it's no wonder they have to prioritize. I doubt they have anything against humanity progressing, it just isn't their job to make sure that happens.

Edited September 4, 2016 by Relativelybest

[tartarsauce2]

each of the 3 primary factions needs its own semi hostile takeover bid

maxson needs to see you as a threat to his dominance and you maneuver through the inner politics

the institute is made up of a lot of mini-factions each vying for superiority

the railroad is paranoid, desdemona gets shown up by accident (don't even let the player know how but it has to make sense after the fact and be in character and style) and then it's a simple matter of not dying to her - as a questline until you bring the fight to her, or bring her down, she gets exiled/banished - perhaps becomes an optional boss holding out with the automatron raiders)

a portion of the BoS loyal to maxson could peace out, and a coalition of diehards of the institute could join the gunners for support resulting in higher tech weapons and armour for them

alternatively, each of these questlines could be done where you end up alienating 5/6 of the "factions" (2/3 main factions are not under your control and the full might is against you, while a small portion influencing the game from the faction you take over)

where you don't pick BoS. instead of maxson loyalists, a portion of more technologically oriented members of the BoS form a speical squad (the same faction that would fight you if you took over by beating down maxson)

Edited September 4, 2016 by tartarsauce2

[charwo]

 

 

Of course, given what it's already possible to do in the game as the player - and other stuff, like working electricity and water purifiers being standard, and the fact that even the damn raiders are literate - it kinda doesn't make sense that the Commonwealth is in as bad a shape as it is anyway. Two centuries should have been enough for everyone to strip Boston down for parts and build a whole new city, rather than resorting to living in old ruins or improvised shacks. Then there's the Automatron and Contraption Workshop DLCs, which makes it possible to build automated industrial machines. With enough elbow grease they could build a bunch of robots to run automated farms or gather resources - something I have already done in the game - and generally just clean the place up.

 

It's like the player character is the only one who isn't completely apathetic about the situation. (And the Mechanist, even though that didn't turn out so well.) But I digress.

 

This is because Bethesda doesn't give a s#*! about world building in Fallout. What was campy in Fallout 3 got more campy and pathetic. They wasted so many opportunities with this game and this setting it's inexcusable for a company renowned for their world building. Maybe they're only competent at Elder Scrolls? They certainly didn't give a s#*! Fallout and now are using the franchise to beta test every stupid idea under the sun.

That's the thing about FO4 and New Vegas: New Vegas didn't need a savior; everyone was fighting for their piece of the pie but the world was going forward according to someone's vision. FO4 is designed to be a setting so pathetic it plays to the most simple minded power fantasies.

[tartarsauce2]

if you want ideas for a more fulfilled endgame world, I've basically sperg'd out constantly and am using this as a personal flagship ideal
I don't know if others would like it, the "crazy good" link is my first iteration, my posts in this thread are a continuation of it, the idea by the way, is to make a more nuanced gameworld for fallout 4, which includes multiple aspects, in order to flesh the game out and deal with that empty feeling - the idea is to bring about a situation in which "nothing ever ends" as it were, the main hope for the commonwealth is in fact the minutemen, acting more in the fashion that they resemble best, as an overall umbrella militia organization working as a special group almost as the glue between multiple areas
recently I decided it'd be cool of sargus ironworks were a full settlement with "slag lords" (new faction) being the main internal faction and forgers being their regional enforcement group (mooks, common enforcers to kill etc, thugs, noone important to the owners of sargus) - people were suggesting cold and exposure, complaining about the lack of sensible shelter in the game... etc

sargus ironworks could also be a KEY PRODUCTION AREA. where one attains power armours from, IE: one is making different settlements really important to the player as a functioning world, each city with its own specializations and boons

I also didn't mention it in the following link thread, but I'd like multiple settlements to be part of a larger war effort, sort of like restarting the commonweatlh provisional government, but having all of north america descend upon thee from the previous fallout games en masse, everyone fighting for a piece of the pie after all, but even moreso, and across DLC areas too. (I haven't come up with good strategic reasons for them all yet but...)

I myself am totally MEH at making the actual stuff, but I'm an INTP, SO WITHOUT FURTHER ADO, THE ARCHITECT REVEALS HIS MASTER "PLAN" that he'll never actually do anything for himself, because he's mentally incapable of doing things apparently
I keep promising to make mods when I finish the game but I screwed up my install again... :s time to start from scratch again :D (of course it wouldnt' have been an issue if nuka world didn't install but that's my fault for allowing it to)

https://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/4784215-yet-another-government-mod-idea/

 

it's a LOT of stuff, also this video explains a lot about what made NV so good

Edited September 5, 2016 by tartarsauce2

[TummaSuklaa]

 

Of course, given what it's already possible to do in the game as the player - and other stuff, like working electricity and water purifiers being standard, and the fact that even the damn raiders are literate - it kinda doesn't make sense that the Commonwealth is in as bad a shape as it is anyway. Two centuries should have been enough for everyone to strip Boston down for parts and build a whole new city, rather than resorting to living in old ruins or improvised shacks. Then there's the Automatron and Contraption Workshop DLCs, which makes it possible to build automated industrial machines. With enough elbow grease they could build a bunch of robots to run automated farms or gather resources - something I have already done in the game - and generally just clean the place up.

 

It's like the player character is the only one who isn't completely apathetic about the situation. (And the Mechanist, even though that didn't turn out so well.) But I digress.

 

This is because Bethesda doesn't give a s*** about world building in Fallout. What was campy in Fallout 3 got more campy and pathetic. They wasted so many opportunities with this game and this setting it's inexcusable for a company renowned for their world building. Maybe they're only competent at Elder Scrolls? They certainly didn't give a s*** Fallout and now are using the franchise to beta test every stupid idea under the sun.

 

That's the thing about FO4 and New Vegas: New Vegas didn't need a savior; everyone was fighting for their piece of the pie but the world was going forward according to someone's vision. FO4 is designed to be a setting so pathetic it plays to the most simple minded power fantasies.

 

I agree with most of this, but this also gave me a ton of mod ideas, so there's an upside to it. I think Bethesda went a little backwards with the "feels like post American Revolution, instead of post nuclear detonation" theme. But then I like that for once I can play a good guy saving the world, and minutemen is good for that. But then, the Railroad(and its reference to the Underground Railroad), which I ultimately joined - yeah ending slavery, I wanted a crack at that.