Construction Set for Skyrim, where is it?

[DeadricDamodred]

I would like to add that Math85 mentioned it's our fault for having the expectation on having the CK on release of the game. I think that since they releasd the CK as a cd with Morrowind and had the CK ready for download on Oblivion's release, that that sets up a reasonable expectation that the same would be so for Skyrim. Which is why I would have been in completely ok for them to postpone the entire game until the CK was finished. Like I said, you aren't going to go crazy on fixing bugs and/or editing the game the way you want it, if you haven't even had the chance to play it yet.

[Matth85]

Let me see if I can boil things down for you, and I'll use myelf as an example.

 

I would have had the patience to wait for Skyrim to be released until the end of January. There would have been no complaining from me. I don't get crazy over game release dates, I can wait.

 

However, the same is not true for the CK. Why the difference? This is why:

 

If I haven't played the game yet, then I'm not bouncing up and down wanting a CK to change things. If i've played the game, but there is no ck, then everytime I play it I just think how much time I'm wasting when I could be editing it for a more enjoyable experience.

 

That's why people are going out of their minds for the CK. If Bethesda had simply held off on the entire game until the CK was finished, you'd hear a lot less gripping. You aren't going to grip about wanting to change things if you haven't even played the game yet. But since people have played it/are playing it, they see all these things they want to change, but can't do a darn thing about them until the CK is released. Having the bugs/things you want to edit sitting there staring you in the face while you do not have the tools to do something about them is what makes people bounce up and down in anticipation for the CK. The whole thing should have been posponed until both the game and the CK were both ready, just like they did with Morrowind and Oblivion.

 

It's not that I don't see your point, or understand the problem. However, if people want to crap on common sense and their rights here, I might aswell do the same back?

You see, TES games are 99% a game, then 1% a toolkit. Why should they delay the game from the "cool" date they set, which also is the reason for a unfinished game at release, just so they could clean up the toolkit?

And they also wanted us to play the game, instead of modding it to the core before we got any idea about it. I assure you, so many people would have modded it out and only have half their playtime by now. Why should Bethesda even make games if people didn't spend time playing them? Do you know the time it takes to make a single model?

 

It's so very logical why it is like it is, and it is so very unlogical why people sits in a corner yelling because they can't mod it with the Ck.

You know, you can mod 95% allready -- you are only let out of scripting. That means you can finish a big mod about 80% before the toolkit is out, and simply spend a few weeks setting it together with scripts and quest layouts.

 

Again, what is the problem? Are you telling me half the forum goes berserk because they can't script?

[TheElderInfinity]

Matth85, once again you are making an apologia for Bethesda and you STILL don't get it.

Once again you are as negative as can be. I do not make apologizes for them, I simply defend them. Why do I defend them? Because they've done nothing wrong. If they have done nothing wrong, what the heck are you on about?

See my point?

 

 

People who are saying that they want to get their hands on the CK are not JUST buying Skyrim for the CK. If they are anything like me, they bought Skyrim hoping against hope that Bugthesda might have learned something from previous releases and released the game in a fit state.

Which is not Bethesdas problem, nor mine. You hoped and expected something you knew would not happen. Every TES game is the same at release: Buggy. That won't change magically over a single game.

 

And if they didn't produce a less buggy game(which they didn't) The Toddler had given us the impression that the CK would arrive soon after release, all the better to fix it up.

It is still pretty soon after release.

 

I am well aware that January ain't over yet so I do not consider that they are late as compared to the ETA that they gave earlier in the week.

I am glad you see my point.

 

If you think that Bethesda wouldn't lose anything by not releasing the CK then you are very much mistaken. I keep coming back to this, the manager of my local GAME store says that their company keeps on selling copies of Oblivion and Morrowind to this day because of the modding possibilities. Bethesda take inspiration and ideas from mods in one game forward to the next game. It's a mutually beneficial relationship.

Again, this gives you, or us, any reason to feel entitled for a toolkit. They earn minimal with Oblivion and Morrowind today, and will earn tenfolds more at the same timespan with the small ads at the steam workshop.

My point being that yes, we both vbenefit from is. However, we got no right to demand for anything. You paid for the game -- nothing else. Unless you pocket in 100 000 000 bucks to Bethesda, you are not entitled to anything more. If then the toolkit is delayed a year, then that's fine: We still get it. I could easily wait months for the toolkit, knowing it would come, rather than not having it.

 

I am not defending Bethesda here, I am more "attacking" everybody crapping on logic and starts demanding everything.

No, you are not entitled a toolkit.

No, you did not pay for a toolkit.

No, Bethesda wouldn't start making bugfree games all of a sudden.

No, Bethesda hasn't gone Rogue and will sell your mods with the steam worshop.

No, Bethesda isn't everything wrong in the world.

 

I will ask a simple question. Critizie me all you want, even start raging on me -- but answer this: Why do you buy something, knowing it won't be perfect, yet you start hating when you get it?

Do you keep buying Cola if you know you hate it, and rather want Solo?

 

And to quote somebody else for a little while:

 

Plus releasing on the Superbowl weekend would suck so much, it would give non-American modders a massive head start over American modders. Then again, seeing as Skyrim's apparently updating, it's likely coming tomorrow or even later today. Bethesda's in Eastern Standard Time like me, and here it's 9:14 AM.

/facepalm

... just... what? When did Modding become a competetive competition? Do you really do "speed moddings competitions!" where your goal is to do a 3 year big mod under 24 houres?

When the toolkit is released everybody gains from it, even if some people need to wait a week for the toolkit to be aviliable. Bugs will be fixed rather quick, which everybody can download.

Then, a few months from now, the biggest mod will start rolling in, some are finished and some show Alpha/Betas.

A few years from that, it returns how it was for Oblivion -- small personal mods are all that is released, with the odd huge years + mod that is finally finished, but nobody bothers to play.

In the end, a "headstart" is irrelevant. The first to use the CK will be the one finding the bugs and annoyance of it, and making wiki posts. This will make it better for thoose getting it later.

 

Cheers,

Matth

 

Modding isn't necessarily a competition, but a certain mods have an "There can only be one" thing going on. A lot of mods will monopolize whatever purpose they serve and won't get usurped unless the creator stops updating. I'm not talking story, quest, or item mods. Of course, that only applies to small name modders; the big name guys can just muscle there way into whatever "mod purpose" they want on reputation alone.

 

^ Honestly, I'd say its practically the other way around, at least in terms of game lifespan.

 

99% of TES games' lifespan is because of modding.

 

1% is because of the game itself.

(hyperbole okay)

If Bethesda is lucky, that will increase to like 5% or something with DLC.

Edited January 27, 2012 by TheElderInfinity

[TheElderInfinity]

 

Plus releasing on the Superbowl weekend would suck so much, it would give non-American modders a massive head start over American modders. Then again, seeing as Skyrim's apparently updating, it's likely coming tomorrow or even later today. Bethesda's in Eastern Standard Time like me, and here it's 9:14 AM.

 

lol so?

 

It's not a competition...

 

 

I guess we should postpone the CK til after "football" weekend for the americans :rolleyes:

 

Yep, because since Bethesda is an American company, a good portion of the modding community is also American. I'd estimate at least 20-30%, which, while nowhere near a majority, is a sizable enough demographic to merit a 1-2 day delay.

 

But honestly, I'm expecting it some time around the middle of next week, seeing as 1.4 came today. Depending on how long Bethesda intends to have us test 1.4

 

But honestly,

Edited January 27, 2012 by TheElderInfinity

[Sunnie]

1.4 beta has been out for a few days now, 1.4 official won't be out until next week.

Or did you not see this post above?

[TheElderInfinity]

1.4 beta has been out for a few days now, 1.4 official won't be out until next week.

Or did you not see this post above?

 

I said "most likely next week." Didn't realize the beta was out already though.

[Sunnie]

1.4 beta has been out for a few days now, 1.4 official won't be out until next week.

Or did you not see this post above?

 

I said "most likely next week." Didn't realize the beta was out already though.

 

So I suppose the answer is: No, you didn't see that post above. :laugh:

[leirynot]

I hope that they don't wait until after super-bowl weekend, I hope that Bethesda releases the CK as early as possible, I can wait, but I hope that I am not waiting because of something as boring and illegitimate as American "football" (I personally call it hand-pig), who cares if some of their modding community won't immediately start modding because they are watching hand-pig, they can download it and start modding afterward the Superbowl, personally, I record the Superbowl with my DVR, fast forward the game and watch the commercials, they're hilarious. And yes, I am in fact, an American that hates hand-pig, I mean "football", I much prefer real football (some call it soccer).

[Lachdonin]

Why would you wait until after the Superbowl anyway? Its a freaking football game, its not like you're going to get more than a few hours of enjoyment out of it anyway. The CK is infinately more valuable than some over hyped sports event which has (or at least should have) absolutely 0 critical impact in your life. Then again, overrliance on digital entertainment mediums (AKA the CK) isn't healthy anyway, but i guess making good decisions isn't the western way.

 

Anyway, i'm personally expecting it tuesday.

[Greyhound53200]

My, my, my.

 

Just a consumer's (read: gamer's) opinion after reading the 69 thread entries above.

 

First off: I greatly respect the modding community for all the beautiful work they delivered (and will deliver) granting us gamers many hours additional gaming fun. Especially the beautiful Morrowind mods come to mind. Keep up the good work!

 

However, to all complaining (may I say 'whining') modders toward Bethesda's 'buggy' games and unfulfilled expectations I'd like to say the following:

 

Where is your appreciation?

 

Appreciation for the fact that Bethesda did provide the gaming community with a highly entertaining game, providing hundreds of hours of gaming fun? I don't think any of us gamers expected Skyrim to be flawless. I'm convinced a majority of us is willing to accept a bug here and there, as long as the annoying ones are being fixed. Has any of you guys ever played Skyrim to its completion? I highly doubt it. I even read some of you haven't even started the game yet, so shame on you.

 

Appreciation for the fact that Bethesda has constructed its games in a way that modding is a (pleasant) extra feature and provided and will provide you with a FREE means of mod creation. A lot of gaming companies would sue your asses off if you would create/publish any ammends or additions to their game. Please keep in mind that you're able to perform your hobby by the grace of companies like Bethesda and not the other way around, so come off that mountain, please.

 

Just my two-cent-contribution.