Schooling

[TheTerminator2004]

Ah, I thought he was still talking about school. My mistake. :)

[ninja_lord666]

Ah, I thought he was still talking about school. My mistake. :)

Umm...college is school...Maybe I wasn't so far off with my comment... :unsure:

[Abramul]

The biggest advantages I can see for homeschooling are:

1: Material can be presented in whichever form the student does best with.

2: If a student has mastered an area, they can immediately move on. If they have a hard time with something, extra time can be devoted to it.

3: The teachers have a vested interest in the success of an individual student.

 

Once high-school level is reached, it's difficult for one person to have an in-depth knowledge of all fields covered...but this is the Information Age, and most questions can be answered within a few minutes.

[Xeniorn]

@Abramul: there's a few things I'd like to comment about your view of home schooling advantages.

 

1: Concentrating on making things very appealing for the students is very likely to render them incapable to adapt to different environments and conditions. He is unlikely to find the perfectly personalized job position that would suit him with all the commodities he had while home schooling.

 

2: I can't really object to that, I'd just add that it would require frequent retesting of the area as it is completely redundant for someone to learn something if he's going to forget it in a few months. Extended periods of devotion to an area that has already been mastered ensures that the achieved mastery is long-lived.

 

3: The ideal teacher in a public school should vest interest in his students as well. I'm sure everyone will recognize the seldomness of such teachers in reality as the main problem. But in good schools such professors are quite more probable to come by. Why? Because students inspire their teachers. In my experience good schools are the ones with good teachers rather than ones with a large budget. A good school attracts good students. Good students inspire their teachers because they make their job feel worthwhile and force them to think by asking smart questions and showing interest. Because of that, a good school becomes better - and then it attracts more good students, making teachers even more inspired, which in turn makes it an even better school. Also the spirit of friendly competition motivates the students to be better and leads to students who learn more without feeling as if it's work. It all sums up to a sort of circulus vitiosus.

This makes the teachers in the good public schools (or private schools, but due to the fact that in Croatia most, if not practically all students that go to private schools go there to get formal education without educating themselves - since they are paying, it is, because of some weird reasons, expected that they don't have to know so much to achieve a degree) behave almost ideally.

 

Now something to add on my own. Homeschooling supposedly gives you an advantage because you don't have to spend time listening to lessons on area you've already mastered. I may be wrong but when I look at myself as an example I can't really see how could I possibly make better use out of the additional hours I'd get if I were homeschooled. It only takes me a minimal amount of time to deal with homework and studying for school and I spend most of my study time studying something extra the usual school program, sometimes on a much higher level that my current formal education.

 

You could say that I actually homeschool myself, but attend a public school at the same time. I don't really see any better option than this. School didn't ever stand in the way of my self-teaching. Nor did my self-teaching ever stand in the way of school. When there are questions I fail to find answers to in books or on the internet, I turn to my professors or, more often, my senior colleagues. By interacting (by this I'm not referring to the socialization, rather to a form of mentor-student) with a significantly larger number of people I fell advantaged to people who are in contact only with their few private teachers. Even if private teachers are slightly, or more-than-slightly better, the variety of different viewpoints on the same matter proves to be much more useful.

 

There is a good analogy here. If you were given two pictures showing the frontal and the top view of an object, you'd get some idea about how the object looks in truth, but your idea would be much closer to the truth if you were given 5, 10 or 20 pictures, all taken from different standpoints. One of the pictures might be in color, other one with great sharpness, high contrast, structural analysis data or something else. The more info you have on hand the better you can depict yourself the object.

 

Just one more thing to add, public schools (and private ones, I can't judge them all just because the ones in my country :D) are socially favorable because a gifted student in a fertile environment will induce giftedness in others, increasing possibility of finding their inspiration just because a positive example is around.

 

I'd write more but it's much too late (5AM) and I really ought to go to sleep. :)

 

P.S. freddy, please don't think of this as an attack on your way of education. I simply see it as less good for me and think it less favorable to the universal knowledge than the "regular" forms of schooling. I can agree to the fact that there are some exceptions - people who are better off home schooling. I just don't recognize this as a universally better solution.

[freddycashmercury]

@Abramul: there's a few things I'd like to comment about your view of home schooling advantages.

 

1: Concentrating on making things very appealing for the students is very likely to render them incapable to adapt to different environments and conditions. He is unlikely to find the perfectly personalized job position that would suit him with all the commodities he had while home schooling.

 

2: I can't really object to that, I'd just add that it would require frequent retesting of the area as it is completely redundant for someone to learn something if he's going to forget it in a few months. Extended periods of devotion to an area that has already been mastered ensures that the achieved mastery is long-lived.

 

3: The ideal teacher in a public school should vest interest in his students as well. I'm sure everyone will recognize the seldomness of such teachers in reality as the main problem. But in good schools such professors are quite more probable to come by. Why? Because students inspire their teachers. In my experience good schools are the ones with good teachers rather than ones with a large budget. A good school attracts good students. Good students inspire their teachers because they make their job feel worthwhile and force them to think by asking smart questions and showing interest. Because of that, a good school becomes better - and then it attracts more good students, making teachers even more inspired, which in turn makes it an even better school. Also the spirit of friendly competition motivates the students to be better and leads to students who learn more without feeling as if it's work. It all sums up to a sort of circulus vitiosus.

This makes the teachers in the good public schools (or private schools, but due to the fact that in Croatia most, if not practically all students that go to private schools go there to get formal education without educating themselves - since they are paying, it is, because of some weird reasons, expected that they don't have to know so much to achieve a degree) behave almost ideally.

 

Now something to add on my own. Homeschooling supposedly gives you an advantage because you don't have to spend time listening to lessons on area you've already mastered. I may be wrong but when I look at myself as an example I can't really see how could I possibly make better use out of the additional hours I'd get if I were homeschooled. It only takes me a minimal amount of time to deal with homework and studying for school and I spend most of my study time studying something extra the usual school program, sometimes on a much higher level that my current formal education.

 

You could say that I actually homeschool myself, but attend a public school at the same time. I don't really see any better option than this. School didn't ever stand in the way of my self-teaching. Nor did my self-teaching ever stand in the way of school. When there are questions I fail to find answers to in books or on the internet, I turn to my professors or, more often, my senior colleagues. By interacting (by this I'm not referring to the socialization, rather to a form of mentor-student) with a significantly larger number of people I fell advantaged to people who are in contact only with their few private teachers. Even if private teachers are slightly, or more-than-slightly better, the variety of different viewpoints on the same matter proves to be much more useful.

 

There is a good analogy here. If you were given two pictures showing the frontal and the top view of an object, you'd get some idea about how the object looks in truth, but your idea would be much closer to the truth if you were given 5, 10 or 20 pictures, all taken from different standpoints. One of the pictures might be in color, other one with great sharpness, high contrast, structural analysis data or something else. The more info you have on hand the better you can depict yourself the object.

 

Just one more thing to add, public schools (and private ones, I can't judge them all just because the ones in my country :D) are socially favorable because a gifted student in a fertile environment will induce giftedness in others, increasing possibility of finding their inspiration just because a positive example is around.

 

I'd write more but it's much too late (5AM) and I really ought to go to sleep. :)

 

P.S. freddy, please don't think of this as an attack on your way of education. I simply see it as less good for me and think it less favorable to the universal knowledge than the "regular" forms of schooling. I can agree to the fact that there are some exceptions - people who are better off home schooling. I just don't recognize this as a universally better solution.

 

Well, this is a debate, isn't it? It would be a bit boring if everyone agreed with me. To be honest, a lot of what you said makes sense. The only problem is location. I moved to a small town in Missouri after living in San Diego, California. To be even more honest, were I still living in San Diego, I might agree with you that public schooling is better. In Missouri, however, the school systems just plain suck, to put it bluntly. The teacher are underpaid, meaning we get the rejects better schools won't take. The parents couldn't care less about what their children are learning, and the kids are totally undisciplined. Well, that is the case at my town's public school system, anyway.

 

The part about not knowing what to do with your free time, well, I just read a lot. Oh, and play Oblivion, of course. :biggrin:

 

In any case, my point of view, as yours seems to be, is that different types of school are better for different students. I never claimed homeschooling was the best option for everyone, although I did neglect to make that clear.

[hoots7]

Hoots, 75+ in a class? I went to a public school, the largest class I was ever in was 32, and even that was considered very big. Same goes for various friends who went to different schools. So, either you're wildly exaggerating, or the American school system is very different to that of the UK. And poorer too, if they have classes of 75+. How the hell is anyone supposed to learn anything in a class like that?

He's talking about college, not high school. In college, most your classes will feature you sitting in a large auditorium with a bunch of other people listening to the professor lecture for 1-3 hours about the given subject.

Ninja is absolutely correct, & I did differentiate between high school & a major university & suggested a junior college to freddycashmercury.

Not because I think he’s dumb, stupid or can’t handle the curriculum of a major university, it’s the social aspect of it I was referring to that’s all.

 

In my occupation (engineering world) I have come across many highly intelligent people that can cram numbers & recall information at the drop of a hat. But if you put them in a public environment you would think that they were retarded (honestly after I thinking about it I guess they are in some way) their social skills have never developed, they are very intelligent yet introverted.

I think of my friends’ brother, he wasn’t that bad but he graduated high school 2 years early because he was smart & he could do it. Then he went to Baylor University, a fairly big school but not even that much of a party school & it does turn out some of the best doctors & lawyers. Well he didn’t last one year, not because he’s not smart enough, no way, he just wasn’t ready for it; IT’S A BIG CHANGE that’s an advantage of junior college. The disadvantage is that you will find that some people are there because they can’t get into a university & can pull you down. So there’s a flip side to the coin.

Sorry, I guess this doesn’t help you that much, but at least it lets you know what you’re up against.

[Rakuran]

From what I have seen,

Public and Private are pretty much equal.

 

I currently attend a public school, but from what I have

heard about private schools, they're almost the same.

 

Just because you have to pay to get in doesn't make the kid

more civilized or smart. It's up to the student themselves

to use the resources at hand.

 

Sadly private schools do get more funding, so yes,

private would have better facilities, I wont say public and private

are equal on that area.

 

So I guess on the materials part of the debate Private wins,

also in teacher:student, opportunities, class sizes...

 

Seems like Private has the best for all....

But I attend a Public school and I am just as smart if not

smarter than most kids at either because,

I know how to use the resources at hand....

 

Overall,

It's really up to the student as to which is better.

 

Materialistically speaking: Private Pwns Public.

At least in Australia anyways... :wallbash:

[thekid345]

Having my mom and dad as teachers, and my grandparents as artists, i have to go to private schools. I am going to a private school next year for high school. I perfer private due to this formula...

 

Smarter kids=less idiots,duh,=A better education and thinking space for myself.

 

Haha, i find it hilarious how middle schools in Vegas are Pbs(positive behavior schools) And i see students thrown into bathrooms and beaten up every period.... o_O

[Sativarg]

I voted Other just to pe a pest. No, really though, I think a hybrid of home and private education coupled with an infrastructure supported by public money might begin to improve education. Much of the funds for education go towards transporting student to and from centralized institutions. If some of the school time could be spent at home and the centralized class rooms where time shared perhaps class sizes could be reduced and students could enjoy more individualized attention. Of course, the one problem with that scenario is that most modern homes can not afford the luxury of a dedicated parent. It's a shame, but thats where the "private part kicks in in the form of an in-home education system based on the internet and perhaps employer supported home time for parents who choose to be involved.

 

Private schools have the advantage of greater autonomy to change and grow as they see fit. They compete for students and money so they should be more of a living entity that acts according to the truth than the government schools are.

 

I know this is probably impossible but to put the incentive in the right place I suggest the bulk of an institutions rating and funding should depend on where the students end up in say 15 years. Its not about test scores its about results. Isn't it?

 

 

The above is just rambling brainstorming. It's badly in need of organization and filling out. But I gotta go...

[Duskrider]

Homeschooling? HELL NO. This is another one of those ideas that sounds good in theory, but is an utter disaster in practice.

 

1) Very, very few people have the skills and knowledge necessary to give a proper general education. Even those of us who have high-level knowledge of specific subjects (engineering, math, physics, in my case) rarely have the same knowledge in all of the areas required. I could teach someone every form of math from basic addition to university-level calculus, but I know almost nothing about literature. And the problem only gets worse when you realize that knowing a subject is not the same as being able to teach it... go to any serious university classes, and you'll learn this far too well: there are many people who are brilliant in their fields, but who just suck at teaching that knowledge to others. Oh yeah, and just to beat the dead horse a bit more, how many families have enough money that they can afford to have this brilliant, well-educated parent staying home teaching full-time?

 

2) Many people use homeschooling as an excuse to second-guess the experts on what is true, and what their children really need to learn. Similarly to point #1, most people simply do not have the knowledge to make an informed decision on this. And making the problem worse, many of them are proud of this fact. Consider something like the "debate" over creationism vs. evolution, in the scientific community (the experts who actually matter), there is no debate, evolution is as solid a theory as the theory that disease is caused by bacteria. In formal schools, the correct theory is taught, and schools are held accountable for any refusal to do so. But consider the general population, where there are plenty of people who refuse to accept this fact... if they homeschool their children, what is stopping them from giving their children a fundamentally flawed "theory" of creationism instead? Nothing, of course, and people do exactly that. Now skip forward a few years, when these children get out into the real world, and their lack of knowledge leaves them completely unqualified for any serious higher education.

 

3) It's much harder to hold homeschooling parents accountable for the content and quality of their teaching. While standardized end of course tests suck, regardless of whether they are used in schools or by parents, at least in schools you have normal grading and supervision to help out with this. Compare this to homeschooling parents... how do you make sure the parents aren't biased in their grading and making it too easy to get high grades? Public schools are bad enough in this country, and produce students that are horribly unqualified for the real world, the last thing we want to do is add more opportunities for students to fall behind.