[PerMa] Archery not viable?

[RosyGrogEnigma]

As I've gotten higher and higher level, it seems that my bow is doing less and less damage. I'm at level 46 48 now, and my shortbow is almost useless; enemies often take 15+ arrows to kill, even when shooting from behind at point blank range.

 

I just entered a dwemer ruin, and running into guardians, it's finally gotten so far that I have to ask if PerMa archery is useless or if there's something wrong with my installation.

 

I'm using a Reforged Dragonsteel Shortbow with shock enchant - My inventory claims that it does 217+19 damage, plus ebony arrows with 28 damage. My bow skill is 108 (uncapped, because legendary skills are pointless). Add to that that I have Point Blank, Flanking, Arrowhail, Coup de Grace, Blindside and Piercing Thrust perks, as well as enchanted gear, so I should be getting +225% damage as well as enemies having -50% armour when attacking the back of the target from point blank range.

 

I also have Dawnbreaker with 91+20 damage, and Light Weapon Combat and Blindside perks, which should give +55% damage.

 

Using Dawnbreaker, I kill every mob more than twice as fast as with my bow, which seems strange - The enemy health bar moves considerably more for each hit with the sword than for each hit with the bow.

 

This means that a sword with a potential of 161 damage does more damage than a bow with a potential of 507 damage (+arrows), which also ignores 50% armour...

(Using Top Gear mathematics and if my understanding of bonuses are correct; in any case, according to my inventory screen, 91 is more than 217 (+arrows).)

 

So, what's wrong with my setup? Is there an inherent disadvantage for bows in PerMa, or does another of my mods cause issues/break PerMa? Or did I break something when I uncapped skills? :tongue:

 

 

Mod list:

 

Skyrim.esm
Update.esm
Dawnguard.esm
HearthFires.esm
Dragonborn.esm
Unofficial Skyrim Legendary Edition Patch.esp
Falskaar.esm
UnlimitedBookshelves.esp
Lanterns Of Skyrim - All In One - Main.esm
Campfire.esm
WM Flora Fixes.esp
ClimatesOfTamriel.esm
SPIKE.esm
HighResTexturePack01.esp
HighResTexturePack02.esp
HighResTexturePack03.esp
Unofficial High Resolution Patch.esp
dD - Realistic Ragdoll Force - Reduced.esp
SkyUI.esp
AlwaysPickUpBooks.esp
RaceMenu.esp
RaceMenuPlugin.esp
AHZmoreHUD.esp
iHUD.esp
Auto Unequip Ammo.esp
Convenient Horses.esp
Hothtrooper44_Armor_Ecksstra.esp
NoSneakAttackSound.esp
Thundering Shouts (normal pitch).esp
Clear Skies Fix - CoT version.esp
Dr_BandolierDG.esp=0
ELFX - Exteriors.esp
immersive roads.esp
Hothtrooper44_ArmorCompilation.esp
Guard Dialogue Overhaul.esp
Weapons & Armor Fixes_Remade.esp
Clothing & Clutter Fixes.esp
Rebirth Monster.esp
Weapons & Armor_TrueWeaponsLvlLists.esp
SkyFalls + SkyMills Falskaar.esp
EnhancedLightsandFX.esp
FCO - Follower Commentary Overhaul.esp
AmazingFollowerTweaks.esp
Immersive Weapons.esp
WeaponsArmorFixes_ImmersiveWeapons_Patch.esp
aMidianBorn_ContentAddon.esp
Complete Crafting Overhaul_Remade.esp
Complete Alchemy & Cooking Overhaul.esp
fallentreebridges.esp
Book Covers Skyrim.esp
ELFXEnhancer.esp
Helgen Reborn.esp
SkyFalls + SkyMills + DG + DB.esp
SDO Full-LOD - Waterfall Effects.esp
RealisticWaterTwo.esp
Populated Skyrim Legendary.esp
Breezehome_Fully_Upgradable.esp
Dr_Bandolier.esp=0
SDO Full-LOD - The Morthal Swamp Light.esp
ELFX - Weathers.esp
RealisticWaterTwo - Legendary.esp
Cloaks.esp=0
Cloaks - Dawnguard.esp=0
1nivWICCloaks.esp
1nivWICSkyCloaksPatch.esp=0
Better Stealth AI for Followers.esp
AchieveThat.esp
ImprovedSneakDetection.esp
Predator Vision.esp
Run For Your Lives.esp
When Vampires Attack.esp
YOT - Your Own Thoughts.esp
AcquisitiveSoulGemMultithreaded.esp
manny_Status.esp
SMIM-Merged-All.esp
ELFX - NoBreezehome.esp
ELFX_2_0_BFU_Patch.esp
UFO - Ultimate Follower Overhaul.esp
Frostfall.esp
UFOtweakV2_Move_it_Back_Off_Closer_Together.esp
SDO Full-LOD - Whiterun Trundra Creeks.esp
RealisticWaterTwo - Waves.esp
Hunterborn.esp
RiverwoodHuntingCabin.esp
RealisticWaterTwo - Dragonborn.esp
Cloaks - USKP Patch.esp=0
The Paarthurnax Dilemma.esp
HoldBorderBanners.esp
Skyrim Flora Overhaul.esp
RealisticWaterTwo - Waves - Dawnguard.esp
RiverwoodHuntingCabinPatch.esp
RiverwoodHuntingCabinPatch_HB.esp
SDO Full-LOD - Giant Campfires.esp
SustainedSpells.esp
RealisticWaterTwo - Dawnguard.esp
iNeed.esp
Brevi_MoonlightTales.esp
Imaginator BETA.esp
Apocalypse - The Spell Package.esp
dovahkiinrelax.esp
PerkusMaximus_Master.esp
DeadlyDragons.esp
Daedric Dawnbreaker.esp
Dawnbreaker_PeacefulExplosion.esp
TorchRadius.esp
YOT - Hunterborn.esp
YOT - Moonlight Tales.esp
YOT - iNeed.esp
YOT - Campfire.esp
CinematicFireFX.esp
Vivid Landscapes.esp
Pre PaMa WAFR CCF CCOR Patch.esp
aMidianborn_Skyforge_Weapons.esp
Unique Uniques.esp
AMB Glass Variants Lore.esp
Differently Ebony.esp
GrassOnSteroids_NaturalEdition_SFO.esp
RealisticWaterTwo - Waves - Falskaar.esp
RealisticWaterTwo - Falskaar.esp
Watercolor_for_ENB_RWT.esp
Skyrim Particle Patch for ENB - Flame Atronach Fix.esp
ClimatesOfTamriel-Dawnguard-Patch.esp
WetandCold.esp
WetandCold - Ashes.esp
ClimatesOfTamriel-Dragonborn-Patch.esp
CoT-WeatherPatch.esp
TrueStorms.esp
TrueStorms-CoT-WeatherPatch.esp
Supreme Storms - Cot Version.esp
CoT-WeatherPatch_DB.esp
CoT-WeatherPatch_Snow-40.esp
CoT-WeatherPatch_SupStorms.esp
CoT-WeatherPatch_NL3.esp
TrueStorms-SupremeStorms-CoT.esp
mintylightningmod.esp
MintyLightningMod_COT_Patch.esp
PumpingIron.esp
SplashofRain.esp
Hunterborn_CACO_Patch.esp
Hunterborn_Campfire_Patch.esp
PalistovSpinningArrows.esp
PalistovSpinningArrows_Dawnguard.esp
PalistovSpinningArrows_ImmersiveWeapons.esp
DYNAVISION Dynamic Depth of Field.esp
Footprints.esp
ClimatesOfTamriel Falskaar.esp
Apocalypse - PerMa Compatibility Patch.esp
PerkusMaximus_Warrior.esp
PerkusMaximus_Mage.esp
PerkusMaximus_Thief.esp
PerMa Headless.esp
PerMaDefluffedPerkDescriptions.esp
Perma Defluff + Apocalypse.esp
PerMa_USLEEP master patch.esp
CACO_UniqueBooze_Patch.esp
CACO_USLEEP_Patch.esp
PerMa-Content Addon Patch.esp
PerMa-Hunterborn.esp
PerMa-CACO.esp
Jump Sound Fix.esp
Warburg's 3D Paper World Map - Texture 1.esp
warburg's 3d paper world map - dawnguard.esp
Warburg's 3D Paper World Map - Dragonborn.esp
PatchusMaximus.esp

 

[Dusty4life]

Sneak is your best friend as an archer. I usually go down the arcane archer route and enchant my bow with frost and fire damage. With that combo you can take things down in one or two hits.

[RosyGrogEnigma]

Sorry, nope. Even with 2,4x sneak attack modifier, I hardly do any damage with the shortbow.

[Dusty4life]

Have you tried using that ABT mod? You can tweak the damage and speed output of arrows. Might be something to look into.

[RosyGrogEnigma]

Unfortunately, it appears that ABT is not compatible with PerMa.

 

In any case, I would love to know why there is such a great mismatch between what my inventory tells me the damage should be and the damage I actually do.

 

...

 

I just thought of something... It seems almost as if the game only applies arrow damage, not bow damage. Is that possible? No, this is just silly.

[RosyGrogEnigma]

Some testing against a Dwarven Knight Warmonger:

Bow: Starting with a sneak attack, 2.1x in the back, then 11-12 more arrows in the back from point blank to kill.

Sword: 9-10 strikes in the back to kill.

 

(In both cases, my follower is tanking and hitting as well.)

I guess that I thought the sword damage was much higher than the bow damage because it takes so much longer to kill with bow, but that is because I hit more often with Dawnbreaker than I am able to draw and loose arrows.

 

Still, the bow should be doing several times as much damage as the sword. The Dwarven Knight Warmongers are immune to shock, so bow damage would be 219 + arrow damage 28 = 247, while Dawnbreaker does 91 + 20 sun damage = 111. Add to that all the bonuses I get with the bow, and I should kill a mob several times faster with the bow than the sword.

So we're back to this: Is the bow damage as stated in the inventory too high? Do mobs react differently to ranged attacks than they do to blade attacks in PerMa? Or is it something with my installation that messes up things?

[RosyGrogEnigma]

More testing:

I have no idea what's going on. Now it seems as if this only applies "in the wild", as it were.

 

If I encounter enemies while playing, my bow is bad.

If I spawn enemies using console commands, my bow is good.

Am I going mad?

[Dusty4life]

It could be a conflict of sorts outside of perma - i am not familiar with a chunk of the mods you use, so i a do not know exactly. Certainly is an odd occurrence to say the least.

[Project579]

Might be a compatibility problem post Modwatch: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/56640 so that i can see how you set it up.

[RosyGrogEnigma]

Huh. That's a neat little thing I've only now heard about after 4-5 years of amateurish modding. :P

 

If for nothing else, thanks for showing me that. :)

 

http://www.modwat.ch/u/RosyGrogEnigma