SkyNet - Co-Op Gameplay (Theory and potential structure)

[BlackRL]

I understand all the emotion and strength, and to be honest I'm really happy to see all this energy, but for the love of God, SKYRIM isn't a game ready to receive more than 2 players, even 2 will destroy everything including the game experience.

 

How will you balance things? More enemies? Not an option because the game will slow down and the frame rate is going to drop massively, not to mention synchronization problems between players, ah, and how about the tight dungeons? How do you want to insert 4 players plus enemies? Increase difficulty? It's not going to be enough because even in the hardest difficulty 1 player can slay everything.

 

I've read something about taking this kind of project seriously, sometimes you guys are the ones to blame, you have all the skills (at least it looks like it, congrats) but you lack one important thing, maturity to understand what you are doing or what are you changing.

 

What came first? The chicken or the egg?

 

First you have to understand the game then you can change it in a way that works, that doesn't ruin the experience, immersion and gameplay mechanics of the game, and if there's something that is absolutely game breaking is putting 5 teens running around SKYRIM burning everything to the ground, this is even a worst scenario than the Daedra invasion or the recent Dragons.

 

Be serious if you want people to think you are being serious, and, as always, this is just a friendly advise, this is your work, your time, your ideas, if you want to waste your time doing something that won't work, will ruin the game, or will be totally ignored or hated (go to the official forums and see for yourselfs) be my guest:

 

http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1298347-dear-bethesda-i-would-pay-for-skyrim-co-op-dlc/ (locked and filled with hate)

http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1239188-official-tes-multiplayerco-op-thread/ (check the bottom of the first topic for old posts)

http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1301558-req-replace-npc-companion-with-real-friend/ (mod request, almost ignored)

 

Btw, there is another group trying:

 

http://www.skyrimmp.com/ (coming soon, yeah right! LOL but I hope so!)

http://skyrimcrafters.wordpress.com/2011/11/30/skyrim-multiplayer-project/ (already mentioned)

 

Finally, if you want a similar world for MMORPG it's DONE! And it's FREE!

 

http://www.ageofconan.com/

 

So really? What's the deal about tons of people in a world that barely is ready to receive 2? Keep it real, simple and functional, good luck.

Edited December 3, 2011 by BlackRL

[Szimitar]

We're not trying to make a new WoW here, we're trying to give a cool Mod to the many people who would like to play Skyrim with a friend or two.

[Emmarae]

http://skynet.hipolipolopig.us/

 

Some forums are open, if you register and introduce yourself you get access to all the discussions we have.

*Most :P

 

The forum where the ideas are being developed in really high detail are closed off to non-staff for now :)

 

http://skynet.hipolipolopig.us/index.php?threads/33/

[BlackRL]

We're not trying to make a new WoW here, we're trying to give a cool Mod to the many people who would like to play Skyrim with a friend or two.

 

Like I said, who am I? I'm just a nick in the internet, I'm nothing, it's your hours, so you are the masters, but again, 2 is the limit to something that works in this game, and even the inclusion of another player has to be really well balanced or else all your work is going down the drain (maybe removing pause, increasing difficulty).

 

I strongly believe that it's possible to keep some ES - SKYRIM feel with 2 players mainly because this mechanic is already in place (NPC companion) but anything that extents from this will destroy the game, not because you are the bad guys or bad coders but simply because the game is a single player game, it was designed and created to be that and only a total new game will change that. And if Betshda themselves need 5 years to make an ES, it's not you guys (or me, or whoever) that are going to do it.

 

Be serious if you want to be viewed as serious.

Edited December 3, 2011 by BlackRL

[FireBug3]

Finally, if you want a similar world for MMORPG it's DONE! And it's FREE!

http://www.ageofconan.com/

And it's BAD. I tryed to play this game twice, once when it was a trial and second when it got free to play, both times i left it disappointed.

[ferododod]

/agree with BlackRL.

 

But frankly, you would have to go down the WoW route and have one do damage and one do healing or something, different, to balance.

Dungeons are too cramped for too people throwing magic, firing arrows, charging in with swords. And on master you'd be too overpowered.

 

I play an illusion/restoration character on one playthrough, lydia tanks, deals damage, takes all the hits, i stand back and heal, use courage, turn undead, fear an occasional enemy, throw up a frenzy. And still we're massively overpowered. Granted, with 2 mobs on her on master, she loses health, on bosses, she can die in 2 hits, so I have to be on my game. But we can tear through the game.

 

Without some serious balancing, 2 players wouldnt work. 2+ players, will enver work with the dungeons we have. Your only option would be to recreate a large amount of dungeon content or limiting co-op play to open world only.

[hipolipolopigus]

http://skynet.hipolipolopig.us/index.php?threads/33/

Yay! :happy:

 

 

I understand all the emotion and strength, and to be honest I'm really happy to see all this energy, but for the love of God, SKYRIM isn't a game ready to receive more than 2 players, even 2 will destroy everything including the game experience.

 

How will you balance things? More enemies? Not an option because the game will slow down and the frame rate is going to drop massively, not to mention synchronization problems between players, ah, and how about the tight dungeons? How do you want to insert 4 players plus enemies? Increase difficulty? It's not going to be enough because even in the hardest difficulty 1 player can slay everything.

 

I've read something about taking this kind of project seriously, sometimes you guys are the ones to blame, you have all the skills (at least it looks like it, congrats) but you lack one important thing, maturity to understand what you are doing or what are you changing.

 

What came first? The chicken or the egg?

 

First you have to understand the game then you can change it in a way that works, that doesn't ruin the experience, immersion and gameplay mechanics of the game, and if there's something that is absolutely game breaking is putting 5 teens running around SKYRIM burning everything to the ground, this is even a worst scenario than the Daedra invasion or the recent Dragons.

 

Be serious if you want people to think you are being serious, and, as always, this is just a friendly advise, this is your work, your time, your ideas, if you want to waste your time doing something that won't work, will ruin the game, or will be totally ignored or hated (go to the official forums and see for yourselfs) be my guest:

 

http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1298347-dear-bethesda-i-would-pay-for-skyrim-co-op-dlc/ (locked and filled with hate)

http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1239188-official-tes-multiplayerco-op-thread/ (check the bottom of the first topic for old posts)

http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1301558-req-replace-npc-companion-with-real-friend/ (mod request, almost ignored)

 

Btw, there is another group trying:

 

http://www.skyrimmp.com/ (coming soon, yeah right! LOL but I hope so!)

http://skyrimcrafters.wordpress.com/2011/11/30/skyrim-multiplayer-project/ (already mentioned)

 

Finally, if you want a similar world for MMORPG it's DONE! And it's FREE!

 

http://www.ageofconan.com/

 

So really? What's the deal about tons of people in a world that barely is ready to receive 2? Keep it real, simple and functional, good luck.

 

Let me get this straight... You make several severely flawed assumptions and assume that we will have an answer for everything. Next you say we're to blame because we lack the "maturity" to understand what we're doing? Then you proceed to make a completely irrelevant comment, continue with the flawed assumptions alongside saying that we don't know what we're doing, then (The absolute icing on the cake!) you seem to think that just because Bethesda, the very same company that distributed a severely broken game and then patched it to be even worse, lock a few posts (What don't they lock? Seriously.) that that should be indicative of this project's impending doom. You then proceed to compare us to a template site and a basic Wordpress site and tell us to not bother with Skyrim because we could be playing AOC?

 

Well let me address all of those issues with this simple statement; It is you, not we, that lack the maturity for this project. This project is barely a week old and it seems as if you want us to have solutions to everything already. Read the 11 pages of this topic, most of which are rather technical and knowledgeable posts (With several proposed solutions to some of the more difficult challenges like representing other players in a client) then kindly get over yourself and leave this thread. You are not welcome here. I'm proceeding to report you and I'm advising people that think that what you've said is unreasonable and unnecessary to do the same.

Edited December 3, 2011 by hipolipolopigus

[BlackRL]

Finally, if you want a similar world for MMORPG it's DONE! And it's FREE!

http://www.ageofconan.com/

And it's BAD. I tryed to play this game twice, once when it was a trial and second when it got free to play, both times i left it disappointed.

 

Agreed, but do you honestly think that SKYRIM will be good with tons of people? It's not certain that even 2 people will be balanced/fun/good, if you think SKYRIM is going to be good with 3, 4 or more players you are going to have a big disappointment. The game isn't designed like that, how will it be? Who starts the quests? And if some of the people does something first or after the other? Then what? How about the framerate dropping because of too many people? And how about dimensions? Will everything be resized to accommodate 3 or more players? Houses? Beds? Dungeons? How about corridors? Will 3 players wait and 1 kill everything?

 

The best scenario is what is in place, host leads the game and the friend follows, and even that isn't the best experience to the friend because he is going to be limited.

 

But if you think that you can change a game designed to be a single player into a MMORPG (yes, more than 2) you are going to be surprised, it's not going to function at all, even if you can pull that off technically speaking, it's going to fail gameplay wise, and at the end this is the more important, do something that others want to use and play.

[nandchan]

I imagine the rebalancing process would consist of multiple parts:

 

1. Mob stats would be adjusted - more damage, more health, requiring you to actually have a dedicated tank with lots of perks in heavy armor and block

2. Perk point count would be reduced

3. Enchantment, Alchemy and gear quality would be reduced, requiring you to actually stack Fortify Heavy Armor enchantments to reach the armor cap, or stack Fortify One-Handed enchantments with buffed up smithing to actually deal some damage.

4. Special enemies and quests could (eventually) be created, maybe something like a large arena where you'd fight some very tough dragons - these have the advantage of being large enough to hit easily

5. Similar to how MMORPGs have their “boss mobs” or “elite mobs”, our special MP mobs could be tweaked to be immune to a lot of common stuff, and get reduced effects from negative effects like “weakness to X”.

 

Ideally, I'd expect a boss fight with 4 players (paladin heavy/block/resto tank, rest/alt mage, sneaky phys dps and mage dps) should take a good few minutes depending on the difficulty setting, perhaps ranging from 1-2 to 10-20.

 

@BlackRL: I'll be honest with you here, I don't expect this project to get here. But I have my fun in theorizing, fantasizing and thinking up systems, which is why I'm participating in this thread. It may be hard to understand for non-programmers, but thinking up ways to implement a working system is very fun, just as fun as playing the game itself.

 

Edit:

 

Agreed, but do you honestly think that SKYRIM will be good with tons of people? It's not certain that even 2 people will be balanced/fun/good, if you think SKYRIM is going to be good with 3, 4 or more players you are going to have a big disappointment. The game isn't designed like that, how will it be? Who starts the quests? And if some of the people does something first or after the other? Then what?

 

All taken care of. The fact that you can't imagine something working doesn't mean others can't.

 

How about the framerate dropping because of too many people? And how about dimensions? Will everything be resized to accommodate 3 or more players? Houses? Beds? Dungeons? How about corridors? Will 3 players wait and 1 kill everything?

 

Most of these are trivial non-issues. The only potential problem is dungeons being cramped, but there are more than enough opportunities for larger scale dungeons in the game. If you and a few followers can fit in (as seen in many quests), so can four players - especially if the mages keep their distances.

 

The best scenario is what is in place, host leads the game and the friend follows, and even that isn't the best experience to the friend because he is going to be limited.

 

There's a word called “cooperative”. It exists for a reason.

 

But if you think that you can change a game designed to be a single player into a MMORPG (yes, more than 2) you are going to be surprised, it's not going to function at all, even if you can pull that off technically speaking, it's going to fail gameplay wise, and at the end this is the more important, do something that others want to use and play.

 

Three is a very large number for you? Also: If you don't want to play Skyrim with friends, then don't. Simple as that.

Edited December 3, 2011 by nandchan

[hipolipolopigus]

BlackRL, kindly leave the thread. You're being obnoxious, rude, arrogant and ignorant all at once and you're ruining the spirit of the project. I've said co-op and not MMO explicitly because I didn't want people to think that this would operate on a 3000+ Users per server basis. No way in Oblivion is that happening.

 

This is a co-op mod. This is for small (3 - 10) groups to get together and enjoy the game together.

 

I imagine the rebalancing process would consist of multiple parts:

 

1. Mob stats would be adjusted - more damage, more health, requiring you to actually have a dedicated tank with lots of perks in heavy armor and block

2. Perk point count would be reduced

3. Enchantment, Alchemy and gear quality would be reduced, requiring you to actually stack Fortify Heavy Armor enchantments to reach the armor cap, or stack Fortify One-Handed enchantments with buffed up smithing to actually deal some damage.

4. Special enemies and quests could (eventually) be created, maybe something like a large arena where you'd fight some very tough dragons - these have the advantage of being large enough to hit easily

5. Similar to how MMORPGs have their “boss mobs” or “elite mobs”, our special MP mobs could be tweaked to be immune to a lot of common stuff, and get reduced effects from negative effects like “weakness to X”.

 

Ideally, I'd expect a boss fight with 4 players (paladin heavy/block/resto tank, rest/alt mage, sneaky phys dps and mage dps) should take a good few minutes depending on the difficulty setting, perhaps ranging from 1-2 to 10-20.

 

You've got the right ideas there. Thanks for being so helpful :happy: I was considering the importance of roles while watching a review for The Secret World and I think it'd be a good idea to focus on a roles mechanic as a vital part of the experience. Tanks, heals, mDPS and rDPS would all need to work together to take down end-dungeon bosses. Or something like that.

Edited December 3, 2011 by hipolipolopigus