rickerhk Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 How many man-years do you think it will take, starting from scratch?The CK will be out long before you even have an alpha version ready. No doubt the CK will be missing features that people will want. How about working on extensions to the CK or separate utilities to fill the gaps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hexorcist Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 How many man-years do you think it will take, starting from scratch? The CK will be out long before you even have an alpha version ready.Irrelevant and ridiculous. "Irrelevant" would be obvious had you read the posts in the first and second pages of the thread. "Ridiculous" because it would only take man-years if the file formats were 100% new and we were figuring them out instead of relying on what people have posted at UESP, which is not the case on either (example: they still use .dds for textures). For input, the only new file format is the .(I|L|)STRINGS files and they're already figured out. Yes, it will take a while to get something on the table that people can use, but in terms of time a single man-year (which is 1800-2300 labor hours) is silly. A time frame of 2-4 months for a beta is more likely. No doubt the CK will be missing features that people will want. How about working on extensions to the CK or separate utilities to fill the gaps?Again, if you'd read the posts in the thread you'd see that we haven't been discussing "missing features", but a few of us have mentioned that we want to REMOVE one "feature". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hexorcist Posted December 4, 2011 Share Posted December 4, 2011 (edited) I keep seeing comments about Steam this and Steam that.. the only thing they said that at will be integrated into the CS is a publish feature that does a one touch package and upload to Steamworks. All this mindless speculation about how Steam is going to ruin the CS is just laughable. The cold hard truth of the matter is this, nobody that can speak about it knows what features are going to be included in the CS, nobody. Steam is a "feature" of the CK. Enough said. -- My stance. I also don't buy into all the speculation of how the CS will be full of Steam DRM. You need the game in order to use the CS, which already has all of the DRM in it, and you need the game to use anything produced with the CS. And those of you who are now going to come back with the tired old pirate story, save it. The pirates aren't going to be stopped by DRM embedded in the CS, just how it doesn't even slow them down for playing the game. I really doubt Bethesda is going to waste what it costs to embed more DRM in a free tool that will be probably be easily distributable.The DRM isn't an issue with me, it's the shoddy work that Steam does that is an issue with me. I'll briefly go over a few of the things that have happened since Skyrim's release because of Steam: (note: this isn't a full list) Deleting game files before downloading a patch to replace them. Anyone with experience in this type of work knows that you delete _after_, not before. Doing it the way it has been done _disables_ people from playing the game while it's being updated, instead of downloading in the background and asking the user to restart the game for it to be updated. Just idiotic, plain and simple. Related: "Automatic Updates" can not be toggled off reliably. This is very basic. Psuedocode: if (checkbox == false) { dont-update; } The issue with this is two-fold. It causes problems like we had with the 1.2 patch where it was removed shortly after being put up. It also does this (obiously) without the user's permission. I should not have to re-check the "Dont Update" setting every time Steam decides to fix a typo in their software -- about once a week. Downloading other languages _DELETES_ current language data. What if I were changing the language so I could get language files in order to translate my mod? This is what happened with me. I had to download each language, that's fine. When it was all said and done I had to re-download over 1GB of data because Steam did not make a copy of the English language files before deleting them. At the very least it could ask the user what they want to do. Related to downloads: Have you not noticed the dialup speeds of the downloads? It's quite obvious to me that their download servers were not intended for the usage that they're getting currently. What happens when users have 300 mods they want to update, and their downloads are going at 1.2KB/sec ? I'll tell you. It will take them forever and frustrate them just as it frustrated me when downloading the language files in my previous point. Being locked out of a game simply because of Steam's login server being "busy" is.. extremely silly. Especially when it's "busy" for two hours. A more detailed list of reasons to avoid Steam can be found by using google. Hell I wouldn't care if this tool uses some kind of DRM to make sure that the people using it own the game -- which is laughable, but I'd support it if it came up for discussion on this tool. I just don't want Steam's illogical, bloated, buggy code in what I use for a CK, nor do I want it to "automatically upload" my mods to Steam's database -- it has been stated that it would, whether or not the user is given the option to disable this is yet to be seen. I don't care that anything made with the official CK is owned by Bethesda - that's fine, but if Steam is "part owner" of it then I want nothing to do with it. However, what "point" are you trying to make? You do realize that Bethesda doesn't care one bit about any tool that is made that might compete with their toolset, it doesn't even register on their radar. So again, what point are you trying to prove? Sorry, I just can't fathom where you are going with this one. :blink: Actually, given the number of users here who have stated that they do not want to host their mod via Steam, it could very well be an eye-opener if we were to get such a tool out. Just because they haven't made a blog post saying "We see you over there!" after a few hours of the idea being up for discussion doesn't mean that it can't or wont. Instead of being a nay-sayer, why not show a little support for the open development of anything that has to do with the game. Edited December 4, 2011 by hexorcist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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