LE Werewolf Fix

[UrsineSleeper]

Is it within a modder's ability/interest to fix Werewolves? Or will we have to wait until the kit is released? I want to be able to interact with things, while in Werewolf form. Like doors, chests, looting corpses that aren't/are eaten, and other things like traps and environmental items. I've been holding off being a Werewolf because I have to use the Wait feature `til morning, just so I can loot a chest for a quest item.

 

I thought Bethesda might fix this, buuuut I kind of doubted it. I'm not even sure if they're going to add Khajiit love interests.

[mindinavoid]

Two things:

 

1) Bethesda won't be adding Khajiit marriage because it's a lore-based decision: neither Khajiit nor Bosmer follow the Eight-and-One. They have vastly different spiritual beliefs from the most prevalent (worship of the Aedra). There will be enough mods that "fix" this from Helgen to Sovngard and back again when the kit comes out. There are ways of changing an NPC's race through the console, however, which doesn't break their AI in any way. They even keep their prior voice!

 

2) Werewolf transformation is a power, not a permanent thing. You aren't forced into Werewolf form, it's a Greater Power that you can use once per day and will wear off after a short time (I believe two and a half minutes in game?) that you can extend by feeding on sentient races (IE the playable races of Man, Mer, Khajiit and Argonian). Much like with the lack of Khajiit or Bosmer marriage prospects, the inability to do certain things as a werewolf is as intended; there is nothing to "fix", for it isn't "broken".

 

Bonus third thing!

3) There are already a few mods that tweak the wereform, but I can guarantee you'll have every option from choosing to be one from the start of the game to pack mechanics and armor/weaponry after the kit comes out (given reasonable time for modifications and learning, that is.)

 

Educate thyself, youngling, for there is much to be learned.

Edited December 5, 2011 by mindinavoid

[UrsineSleeper]

The first sounds like a cop-out, the second I respectfully disagree,

[RenownedWolfman]

The first sounds like a cop-out, the second I respectfully disagree,

 

Well on the first that lore has been in there for quite a while, so no it isn't a cop out.

 

and on the second werewolves in myth don't normally stop to take a necklace off a body and place it in their pocket (which they don't have)

 

and then 3: yeah you'lle have so many options once the CK is out you won't have to worry.

[UrsineSleeper]

But don't you think it's odd to be a Werewolf in a Silver Hand fort, need to go forward through a gate. But the gate requires you to pull a chain nearby and you can't while in Werewolf form. So you have to wait until you're out of it and then do the next half normally...?

[mindinavoid]

The first sounds like a cop-out, the second I respectfully disagree,

Your issue with the first is your own; the lore has been there for some time, you have only to find it. For the Bosmer lore, look up A Dance In Fire, v1 by Waughin Jarth in-game. That story has been in since at least Oblivion (not sure about Morrowind, never got far in that one) and explains in brief how Bosmer won't eat plant matter or use lumber that originates in Valenwood. Another event further in the story (in volume 3) details their spiritual connection to a much higher degree: they summon the Wild Hunt, in which spectral beasts devour all intruders into their native land (in that particular case, Khajiit.)

 

As for the latter, I have not personally found any lore-based information on the Khajiiti spiritual structure, but I'm fairly certain it's been canon lore for some time. Bethesda does a lot of strange things, but retcon their own lore, they do not.

 

I'll put the second in a better term, perhaps, considering my own personal view on how Unarmed combat in this game is "broken" (gimped, to be more precise), much as you see the werewolf form to be: the werewolf form in Skyrim, as Bethesda made it, is meant to be more like a berserker state, like the Orcs' battle rage. You only get 180 seconds to maintain wolf form by default, but feeding extends the transformation; if there's nothing to feed on, you change back.

 

You can use it for a temporary bonus to sprint, but bearing in mind there are numerous NPCs out there that will be hostile on sight, and transforming (to wolf or back) incurs a 1000 gold penalty, it's not exactly wise to wolf out for that quick jaunt between Riverwood and Whiterun unless you're smart enough to keep away from the roads.

 

That's my assumption on Bethesda's reasoning behind werewolf form being the way it is. I might be wrong; I'm extrapolating on limited data here. Regardless, they won't be fixing it, because that's how they intended it to be (as with the Khajiit/Bosmer marriage issue). Assuming otherwise would be like assuming that making it so that the player can only be a werewolf or a vampire, not both, was a technical error and not planned design.

 

But don't you think it's odd to be a Werewolf in a Silver Hand fort, need to go forward through a gate. But the gate requires you to pull a chain nearby and you can't while in Werewolf form. So you have to wait until you're out of it and then do the next half normally...?

Are you forced to be a werewolf before reaching that gate? If not, then it's a matter of unfortunate timing. If so, then it was either intended that way, or just bad level design.

 

Same with Histskin for Argonians: I used it early in a fort full of Necromancers while fighting two, and found out the hard way that there was a class of rogue fire mages practicing in one of the further rooms. After becoming a char-broiled lizard-kebab, I chose to not use my Histskin until later when the autosave reloaded. The only difference in that situation is that I had the option borne of an autosave.

 

If memory serves, there's another quest chain which gets you the Ring of Hircine which (I believe) allows you to wolf out whenever you put it on (although the 180 second timer still occurs).

Edited December 5, 2011 by mindinavoid

[UrsineSleeper]

You know this isn't the official Bethesda forums, right? You have no obligation/need to defend everything they do. ;) It was clearly a fumble on the design, exacerbated by the fact that they had a Christmas-ish deadline to meet, and a knowledge that someone(wink wink, nudge nudge) would do their job for them by fixing it and seven others would pass on brevity and go into needlessly long messages defending them every time they break wind untimely.

[mindinavoid]

You know this isn't the official Bethesda forums, right? You have no obligation/need to defend everything they do. ;) It was clearly a fumble on the design, exacerbated by the fact that they had a Christmas-ish deadline to meet, and a knowledge that someone(wink wink, nudge nudge) would do their job for them by fixing it and seven others would pass on brevity and go into needlessly long messages defending them every time they break wind untimely.

 

I'm not defending diddly. They fumbled on a number of things (Hand to hand is gimped, NPCs talk over each other, Esbern is a walking glitch magnet, the clipboard NPC at the beginning sounds like he learned English two days before they started recording, I could go on but I won't). Your argument is essentially, "Werewolves can't do something, this means they're broken." I'm just pointing out in my habitually verbose way that, no, not everything in a game that doesn't work as you believe it should is "broken", and that particular matter is most likely working as intended.

 

Putting baskets on peoples' heads to steal things is broken. Not being able to marry someone who doesn't believe in the same concept of "marriage" as you is not.

 

I gave you answers to your mod-related questions, you didn't understand my answer or my reason for the answer, and I clarified. Sarcasm and insults are not necessary.

[UrsineSleeper]

I always find it funny how folks justify certain things like this with "because of the lore" in an RPG. Be it MMORPG with some races being barred a certain class, or this marriage thing in a sandbox environment game like Skyrim. While it's true that those lore reasons are there, it doesn't mean there can't be the odd Khajiit that doesn't adhere to the standard ideology. If you're going to use the "because it's their lore" thing, I ask you this: Why are we allowed to be Good, Neutral or Evil? Why aren't all player characters Good aligned? Why are some characters gay? Shouldn't they all be straight? Why can you be a Nord mage? Shouldn't they only be warriors?

 

(I apologize for the shoddy grammar, but it's 3 AM right now and I'm feeling lazy.)

[Kairo29]

I honestly dont mind not being able to loot when I'm in werewolf form. I'm too busy moving quickly through a dungeon smacking the diddly out of ppl and gorging on their insides to care about the coin in their pocket. Plus its fun from a RP standpt to snap out of wolf form and go "O-oh yeah...maybe I should see what I can salvage from the bloody mess I just made."

 

I rly would like the werewolves to interact with doors though. Almost wish there was a "breaking door down" animation for wooden doors that didnt lead to a load interval. Wolfies got enough power to do that. Being able to at least interact with followers would be cool too though, cuz I could just make them open doors at least. *shrug* one or the other would be fine for me. I'm more interested in seeing my victims get maimed and dismembered as I deal with them in werewolf form :D

 

But sure, if a mod came out for this, I'd be down for that.