IMMERSION > always 1st person mode. discussion on how to do it.

[DeadlyAzuril]

I love Skyrim. what I don't love is having this great feeling of immersion torn off by the hinges every time i make a cool kill, ride my horse, turn into a werewolf or smith a new blade.

 

of course I'm talking about the third person camera.

 

note: If your a fan of the third person (i agree, in times it can look very cool - i just don't want it forced on me) then just leave now. your replies aren't needed. this goes double for the 'lets turn kill cams off all together' crowd. those comments have no place in this discussion

 

OK.

 

for those that want a true first person RPG experience. how do we achieve this?

 

idea 1. replace camera .nif files in /meshes/

 

My first thought was to extract the cameras folder in 'skyrim/data/meshes/', setup a camera at x A y B z C (ABC being 1st person camera coordinates) and place this file over all the others (rename to all those files and drop in appropriate directory)

 

this yielded no results.. at least none that were readily noticeable. (I'm looking more into this after the post..)

 

I am sure that this method will play a part in making this a reality though. so I'm not fully discounting it yet.

 

idea 2. replace (or edit) the 3rd person camera bone in the player character skeleton.

 

after reading a nifty post by forum goer necKros here, there was once again hope. this new idea is to modify the bone position the 3rd person camera bone in the player skeleton to sit at the same position as the 1st person camera.

 

inherent problems with this method include the following > the hands of the player disappearing due to camera proximity to the player and the built in collision box that the camera 'hits' when trying to zoom too close, also the cameras pivot is centered to the player. so even getting these two things to work would still result in the camera looking BACKWARDS towards the back of the players head if it was placed positionally in front of this center (aka positioned at or just in front of the eyes.

 

though its not all bad news, we know that the camera FOV is retained between 1st and 3rd person cameras so that's not too much of an issue.

 

thoughts?

 

Az

[xaliqen]

Isn't there a way to do this with an ESM file as in JustinOther's No Kill Moves mod? I think there's probably a simpler solution that doesn't require editing the skeleton or other meshes.

[Rennn]

Couldn't a mod just zoom up the camera a little in front of the head while riding a horse (in 3rd person technically)? It can already spin and change range, so I doubt that making it move a little further ahead would be too hard to do. Edited December 5, 2011 by Rennn

[DeadlyAzuril]

Isn't there a way to do this with an ESM file as in JustinOther's No Kill Moves mod? I think there's probably a simpler solution that doesn't require editing the skeleton or other meshes.

 

I certainly hope there is a solution this simple. According to JustinOthers deciption, the killcams seem to be a global constant that when can be simply switched to 0.

 

I am talking about keeping all the 3rd person animations just changing the position of the camera so its always 1st person.

 

there is first person killcams ofcourse but this works differently in that they are specific 1st person animations (from what i can see?)

 

thanks for the input though :)

[DeadlyAzuril]

Isn't there a way to do this with an ESM file as in JustinOther's No Kill Moves mod? I think there's probably a simpler solution that doesn't require editing the skeleton or other meshes.

 

well yeah its finding those values and locking them to the new position thats the trick.

 

ive found a few interesting things in the /meshes/cameras/ folder..

 

i believe killcam_1hmkillmoveshortb.nif might be the camera for 1st person killcams. need to do some tests :/

 

will post back with results.

[xaliqen]

Sounds good, I'll be interested to know what you find.

 

Keep in mind, this will all probably become far easier once the Creation Kit is out.

[23phoenix23]

Could be a great jumping off point for horseback combat / horseback archery mods.

[DeadlyAzuril]

Could be a great jumping off point for horseback combat / horseback archery mods.

 

that would be cool but for now im just wanting to not have the game change my perspective.

 

update: ok i have a full list of camera ini variables here that I will be playing with when I get home from work. until then if anyone wants to give it a shot..

 

[Camera]
fTweenCamZoomSpeed=25.0000
fTweenCamZoomFOVMod=10.0000
fTweenCamRotClosingSpeed=10.0000
fTweenCamRotSpeed=4.0000
fTweenCamRotAngle=0.0500
bReturnTo1stPersonFromVanity=0
fChaseCameraMaxAngle=30.0000
fChaseCameraSpeed=10.0000
fCollisionRecoveryMinDist=4000.0000
fCollisionRecoverySpeed=3.0000
fPitchZoomOutMaxDist=100.0000
fShoulderDollySpeed=3.0000
fOverShoulderCombatAddY=-100.0000
fOverShoulderCombatPosZ=20.0000
fOverShoulderCombatPosX=0.0000
fOverShoulderPosZ=-10.0000
fOverShoulderPosX=30.0000
fMouseWheelZoomMinDelta=0.0050
fMouseWheelZoomSpeed=0.8000
fMouseWheelZoomIncrement=0.0750
fThumbstickZoomSpeed=0.0500
fFreeRotationSpeed=3.0000
fMinCurrentZoom=-0.2000
fVanityModeMaxDist=600.0000
fVanityModeMinDist=155.0000
fPitchZeroBlendTime=0.7500
fHorseDismountYawCorrection=0.3200
iAnimatedTransitionMillis=1000
iBleedoutTransitionMillis=500
iHorseTransitionMillis=500
fLookingSpeed=0.1000
fCharControllerCheckHeightOffset=124.0000
fCameraCasterBleedOutSize=5.0000
fCameraCasterTargetSize=20.0000
fCameraCasterSize=15.0000
bDisableAutoVanityMode=0
fAutoVanityModeDelay=120.0000
fHorseMaxUpwardPitch=25.0000
fHorseMaxAngleBeforeTurn=90.0000
fOverShoulderHorseAddY=-300.0000
fOverShoulderHorsePosZ=0.0000
fOverShoulderHorsePosX=0.0000
fWorkbenchCameraTranslateZ=-50.0000
fWorkbenchCameraTranslateY=50.0000
fWorkbenchCameraTranslateX=0.0000
fWorkbenchCameraYaw=-1.0000
fWorkbenchCameraPitch=0.5000
fWorkbenchCameraZoom=100.0000
fFurnitureCameraAngle=0.3927
fFurnitureCameraZoom=250.0000
fFreeCameraTriggerDeadzone=0.1000
fFreeCameraRunSpeed=2.0000
fFreeCameraRotationSpeed=3.0000
fFreeCameraTranslationSpeed=20.0000
f1stPitchOffsetMouseMaxLag=4.0000
f1stPitchOffsetMouseFollowSpeed=15.0000
f1stPitchOffsetMultOffMaxSpeed=1.0000
f1stPitchOffsetMultOffAccel=1.0000
f1stPitchOffsetMultOnMaxSpeed=0.6000
f1stPitchOffsetMultOnAccel=0.5000
f1stPitchOffsetTarget=0.7500
f1st3rdSwitchDelay=0.2500
fFirstPersonSittingAngleLimit=1.5708
fFirstPersonSittingRotationSpeed=0.1000
fFirstPersonDisablePOVLerpDPS=2.0000
fAutoVanityIncrement=0.0100
fDefaultAutoVanityZoom=300.0000
fActorFadeOutLimit=30.0000

 

the 1st thing that comes to mind here is we would have to disable the transparency that comes with the camera being too close to the player.

 

:P

Edited December 6, 2011 by DeadlyAzuril

[DeadlyAzuril]

so a few tests have yielded some kinda-not-sorta positive results.

 

managed to get a quasi 1st person horseback perspective by altering the overshouder horse variables, and setting the actorfade variable to -100.

 

also, replacing the camera .nif files with copies of 'base.nif' renamed did seem to have an effect but not one sodiscernable. i will probably have to use fraps or something similar to actually note the difference. the difficulty here is being that killcams are random theres no hard and fast way to get the same one (except for saving say > near a bear and killing it over and over)

 

the more i spend on this the less time im playing maybe I should just wait to see that the CK brings..

 

still, for a few frames atleast the 1st person horse cam looked pretty cool :)

 

 

 

so - unless someone has a game-changer to add to this topic, i believe i shall wait to see what the CK brings. hopefully ill be able to make all-new killcams, 1st person horse mounting/dismounting animations and a working silent roll animation when this comes to pass :)

[SunWolf]

so - unless someone has a game-changer to add to this topic, i believe i shall wait to see what the CK brings. hopefully ill be able to make all-new killcams, 1st person horse mounting/dismounting animations and a working silent roll animation when this comes to pass :)

 

If you are planing on adding animations, it would be great if there would be a way to have more immersive 1st person view, where your arms arent just sticking out in front, but would swing as you run. As referenced, having the 3rd person camera situated at the character's eyes would make a lot of sense.