There is a scene in Schindler's List

[ffa1mf]

@MajKrAzAm-I don't disagree with your interpretation, but there is nothing that suggests Mr. Gold did anything other than not move fast enough or that he was the head of a household (the people who left before him were obviously family) and made an example of for not doing as he was told immediately and making the guards having to come to the door and call them out.

All persons in the ghetto were registered as to names and where they lived (there is two or three scenes on this) so the guards would have had lists with names and locations. Everyone else was moving as directed to the plaza as the guards were yelling for everyone to get out, but the Gold family were still inside with the door closed. It may just as easily been that they were not moving fast enough for the guards or made the guards mad because they had to knock on the door to get them moving out.

 

I have watched that scene a number of times and can't actually hear what Mr. Gold says after he identifies himself or after the guard grabs him. Again, I don't disagree with your interpretation, but if he was shot for being a spy or in the resistance or for doing whatever, it is almost as if the guards actions are justified, but consider if he had done nothing wrong, and was shot just for not responding fast enough.

 

Regardless - just one powerfully brutal scene.

[MajKrAzAm]

@MajKrAzAm-I don't disagree with your interpretation, but there is nothing that suggests Mr. Gold did anything other than not move fast enough or that he was the head of a household (the people who left before him were obviously family) and made an example of for not doing as he was told immediately and making the guards having to come to the door and call them out.

All persons in the ghetto were registered as to names and where they lived (there is two or three scenes on this) so the guards would have had lists with names and locations. Everyone else was moving as directed to the plaza as the guards were yelling for everyone to get out, but the Gold family were still inside with the door closed. It may just as easily been that they were not moving fast enough for the guards or made the guards mad because they had to knock on the door to get them moving out.

 

I have watched that scene a number of times and can't actually hear what Mr. Gold says after he identifies himself or after the guard grabs him. Again, I don't disagree with your interpretation, but if he was shot for being a spy or in the resistance or for doing whatever, it is almost as if the guards actions are justified, but consider if he had done nothing wrong, and was shot just for not responding fast enough.

 

Regardless - just one powerfully brutal scene.

 

Yes, that does seem likely. Spielberg used various anecdotes from Holocaust survivors to include in his film, and the murder of someone's father or neighbour at the foot of their doorstep for something trivial is something one can easily see a Holocaust survivor mentioning. I grew up hearing such stories from family members, and one consistent factor I can pick up is the triviality of the motivation behind Nazi lynching's.

 

Your second paragraph raises an interesting point to discuss/debate. Assuming that the man had aided the resistance, would his death have been justified, legal or even moral? Or as some legal jurists/philosophers have asked 'Was the Holocaust legal?' Just throwing this out so we can escape the pedantry of one movie scene.

[ffa1mf]

Assuming that the man had aided the resistance, would his death have been justified, legal or even moral?

 

I suppose I used the word "justified" in the context that if Mr. Gold had been a member of the resistance or doing something against the soldiers, his being singled out and shot would have made more "sense" within the context of the movie storyline or at least provided a clear reason as to why he was shot. However, I suspect Mr. Spielberg used the scene to demonstrate not just the brutality, but also the absolute disregard the soldiers had for the inhabitants of the ghetto.

[Nintii]

Your second paragraph raises an interesting point to discuss/debate. Assuming that the man had aided the resistance, would his death have been justified, legal or even moral? Or as some legal jurists/philosophers have asked 'Was the Holocaust legal?' Just throwing this out so we can escape the pedantry of one movie scene.

 

Was the Holocaust legal, are you kidding me ... how could the cold blooded murder of six million people ever be justified, what arguement, theory, premise, or whatever could be laid

on the table that would ever be able to justify even a SINGLE DEATH based on that person being Jewish ?

I'm not sure if it was the same film or if I saw it or read it somewhere else, but the same guy who would kill innocent men, women and children by day would go home and hug his children and kiss his wife at night.

That is the behavior of a maniac, how on earth do you justify that ?

Impossible.

[IndorilTheGreat]

Your second paragraph raises an interesting point to discuss/debate. Assuming that the man had aided the resistance, would his death have been justified, legal or even moral? Or as some legal jurists/philosophers have asked 'Was the Holocaust legal?' Just throwing this out so we can escape the pedantry of one movie scene.

 

Was the Holocaust legal, are you kidding me ... how could the cold blooded murder of six million people ever be justified, what arguement, theory, premise, or whatever could be laid

on the table that would ever be able to justify even a SINGLE DEATH based on that person being Jewish ?

I'm not sure if it was the same film or if I saw it or read it somewhere else, but the same guy who would kill innocent men, women and children by day would go home and hug his children and kiss his wife at night.

That is the behavior of a maniac, how on earth do you justify that ?

Impossible.

 

If you look closely, MajKrAzAm was quoting someone, not stating that themselves.

 

As for the movie you are talking about, I believe it is The Boy in the Striped Pyjamas. When I first watched it, it threw me for a loop. I don't often get emotional during movies, but this one had tears welling up in my eyes.

 

And the Holocaust can never be justified. Ever

Edited December 11, 2011 by IndorilTheGreat

[zegh8578]

Before this turns into a war of its own:

 

nobody who has replied here so far supports the holocaust in any thinkable way.

read the whole chain of replies, before making a reply of your own.

 

the first mention of "justified" was in the context of the german soldiers mentality

it was in the context of wether or not the man in the scene was shot:

At complete random - to make a point

or

As part of a "criminal investigation" (hunting down resistance fighters, identified through checks, justified by the germans)

 

if hitler himself found it justifiable to kill jews <---and you can see me use the word "justifiable" there,

it does NOT translate into ME finding it justifiable :D

 

so, everybody calm down, and enjoy the rest of your evenings :]

Edited December 11, 2011 by zegh8578

[Nintii]

If you look closely, MajKrAzAm was quoting someone, not stating that themselves.

 

 

Yes, thank you, I was aware of that ... I was speaking as if directly to those philosophers/Jurists themselves.

 

@ zegh8578 ... No one is assuming that anyone supports or supported the Holocaust in this thread in anyway, so relax ...

Edited December 11, 2011 by Nintii

[Harbringe]

Being as this is a thread about scene's in Schindler's List here's mine that got me.

 

Though I know there are scenes much more powerful (disturbing) the one that got me was the sequence with the little girl in the red coat .When they were clearing out the ghetto and she ran to what for a little girl or any child that young would be an obvious safe place , under the bed and it of course was not .That betrayal of childhood innocence just destroyed me .Even today when I think of the movie its that sequence that always comes to the forefront , can literally see it in my minds eye as if I'm watching it.

 

Powerful movie.

[grannywils]

I Wasn't going to post on this thread, but just wanted to mention that I agree with you, Harbringe. That particular scene really got to me too. It was heart wrenching. The whole movie and the actual story itself were extraordinary. But somehow that singular moment seemed to tell a whole story.... edit: There was a similar scene in another unrelated movie called Philadelphia on a completely different subject (AIDS). It was the scene where Tom Hanks was playing the lovely classical music piece and Denzel Washington was watching him and listening. You could suddenly see when Denzel finally "got it". It was a fine piece of acting on both their parts, and never a word was spoken. It was quite moving. But this has nothing to do with this thread. It just came to mind.

[zegh8578]

Being as this is a thread about scene's in Schindler's List here's mine that got me.

 

Though I know there are scenes much more powerful (disturbing) the one that got me was the sequence with the little girl in the red coat .When they were clearing out the ghetto and she ran to what for a little girl or any child that young would be an obvious safe place , under the bed and it of course was not .That betrayal of childhood innocence just destroyed me .Even today when I think of the movie its that sequence that always comes to the forefront , can literally see it in my minds eye as if I'm watching it.

 

Powerful movie.

 

 

that scene is strong for most people, i believe, it is obviously aso intended as such.

you may notice schindlers entire demeanor change after he himself notices her, and his selfish ambitions turn selfless from that moment on.

 

ive seen the movie many times (i tend to watch movies again and again, often from boredom :D) but each time i get a bit of a lumpy throat to that one - not to mention the first time i saw it, and bawwed like a baby :D

 

like you say, its so gruesome cus of the recognizeable innocense in it, like a kid, shes well aware the streets are in dangerous chaos, but does what she knows best: walks steadily right home, and hides under the bed. people are trying to connect this scene to real events, but one can only imagine the _number_ of real events similar to this one... each one just as heartbreaking.

 

in general, thats what people really should understand, especially with mindboggling numbers, 10 000 dead, 100 000 dead, 10 000 000 dead - not ONE of these people wanted what they got. _every last one_ of them hoped desperately for salvation, before it was too late. every last one of them wanted to live their life.