Combat and Other Enhancements

[shiggidyshwa]

Thinking of starting a modding project when the CK finally rolls around. Until then, an open discussion on how to improve the game will allow some good ideas to surface. To start, let's take a look at making combat more dynamic and challenging, because if we're being honest with ourselves, it's far from perfect in that regard.

 

When first starting the game, the combat is generally exciting. You're learning the controls, weapons, spells, and enemy behaviour. As you level up, not only do you unlock powerful and potentially game-breaking equipment and skills, but you realize most enemies have a repertoire of 3 basic moves. Combat gets stale, and every fight feels like the same routine. Considering that combat is at the core of this game, logic dictates it be the first to undergo scrutiny and improvement.

 

What am I talking about? It might be easiest to use a bandit sword/board warrior as an example. Warriors in general have 3 basic moves:

 

- Regular attack

- Power attack (incl. variations such as sprint attack)

- Block

 

This makes for an incredibly predictable experience that tends to wear on your patience the longer you play the game. Spellcasters are no different. The typical necromancer adept boasts the following skill set:

 

- Summon undead spell

- Elemental attack (sometimes 2 - ice/lightning)

- Heal / mage armour

 

 

That question, then: How can we improve this? I'd like to hear from others before posting anything myself. I'm sure I'm not the first to think this, and odds are that there are a few here who are on the same wavelength.

[MRWalther]

I'm on it XD

 

I have several ideas, but I think they are very complex (if not impossible) to apply. Would be nice if we could have a damage localization, some dodge moves, finish fallen ennemies moves or bonuses and a system of momentum or equilibrium. Something like the deadly reflex mod for oblivion. I also think ennemies should be less resistant but parry (and dodge in case one day such a mod exists) more. The best would be controled directional damage and block, with effects on momentum depending on which attack is used and when etc. In all cases AI should be adapted to the changes.

 

I know some of these things are possible, it has already been done for Oblivion.

[SunWolf]

I posted these ideas in the Total Realism Overhaul Mod...

 

Ideas for More Realistic Combat: Blocking/Parrying

 

Without a shield equipped, having a static block animation with weapons does not make any realistic sense to me and breaks the flow and rhythm of combat. I know that the proposed dodges would make for a major upgrade. However, to be able to just hold down the block without having to time makes it the same boring mechanic that has been around for ages. I think if a parry is not possible, changing blocking so that the block goes up for a second or so and then comes back down, so it at least has to be timed.

 

I feel that a parry would make for a much more dynamic, realistic and fun experience, relying on skill (blocking skill) and timing. One idea is to use the stagger animations. If the parry is timed perfectly, the opponent staggers. If it is an effective parry, but not perfectly timed, than both parties slightly stagger. With a bad timed parry, character takes nearly full damage.

 

The main idea for me is to skillfully create openings for killing strikes, or leaving openings to be killed by a lethal strike/blow. Something like dodge, attack (blocked), block, dodge, parry, kill. I think melee should surround around finding an opening for a multiple quick slashes (which should have a bleeding out script, shown by loss of stamina and health), devastating or killing strikes.

[jantspo]

I like the parry ideas, but would change it to 4 effects: perfectly timed staggers opponent, well timed staggers no one, poorly timed staggers defender, and badly timed (i.e. too soon or too late) causes defender full damage and stagger. Another possibility is instant kills for perfectly parrying, either as default or as a perk in the block tree, for players only. Each one could also have a corresponding damage reduction, 100%, 75%, 50%, 0%.

 

Another thing that would be nice is to increase damage depending on which side you are attacking from. Anyone in plate armor should be able to shrug off dagger or sword strikes from the front, but take normal or bonus damage from the rear. Increase sword and greatsword swing speed and it makes weapon choices much more tactical. Go with axe or hammer for much slower attacks that do good damage from any direction or run with swords that are weaker against high armor targets from the front, but they don't leave you open for counter attack as much as axes/hammers.

 

Directional control of swings would be awesome. In first person view I often find myself trying to control my weapon like in mount and blade.

 

Unfortunately I don't see too many opportunities for making mages more interesting. I really wish spells didn't have to be equipped, but rather could be casted off of bound keys.

 

As it is now combat can get pretty stale quickly. Opponents can either be outright overpowered regardless of their defense or they barely take a scratch. I'd much rather defense be much stronger and increase the ai's ability to defend itself to make getting good clean blows more important than simply spamming attack on an enemy who just sits there blocking.

Edited December 14, 2011 by jantspo

[MRWalther]

The main idea for me is to skillfully create openings for killing strikes, or leaving openings to be killed by a lethal strike/blow. Something like dodge, attack (blocked), block, dodge, parry, kill. I think melee should surround around finding an opening for a multiple quick slashes (which should have a bleeding out script, shown by loss of stamina and health), devastating or killing strikes.

 

I completely agree!

 

Directional control of swings would be awesome. In first person view I often find myself trying to control my weapon like in mount and blade.

 

Me too XD

 

As it is now combat can get pretty stale quickly. Opponents can either be outright overpowered regardless of their defense or they barely take a scratch. I'd much rather defense be much stronger and increase the ai's ability to defend itself to make getting good clean blows more important than simply spamming attack on an enemy who just sits there blocking.

 

I completely agree here too!

 

I'll add examples : Hit your opponent's leg, he should fall (maybe not systematically, and depending on the weapon type)

Hit him in the head, should die if he has no helmet, should die if he has a heavy helmet and you use a hammer

 

The fight could become : ok I have this weapon, my ennemy has this armor (and the contrary), what can I do to expose his head? It would not only rely on the armor parry and weapon skills level.

Edited December 14, 2011 by MR.Walther

[shiggidyshwa]

These are really good suggestions! I'd love to hear more, because these are similar to my ideas of how to make combat more exciting.

 

I believe there is a way to make mage combat more exciting too. You've brought up warrior parrying. Couldn't mages parry too?

 

Maybe any magic-equipped hand could enable parrying by default, using a button modifier or directional activation. Wards would provide more effective parrying and they already have the power to block. A perfectly timed ward parry would reflect the spell back to the caster.

 

Warp skills accessible both to players and regular NPCs would make combat more exciting as well, with a heavy magicka cost to offset their effectiveness.

 

Does anyone have proposals for improving bow and stealth combat in this game?