Should i use texture optimizer for stuff like armors ? Should i use at all ?

[Fillout32]

My goal is not to primarily save a HDD space, but have a game, that is generally as optimized as only possible, to prevent pointless perfomace issues etc.

 

If texture optimizer only save HDD space, please tell me, i will not use it.

 

Other thing that bothers me, is, whether to optimize textures actually mean=reduce their quality ?

 

Thanks for potential opinions.

[PeterMartyr]

Well optimizing textures some times makes them bigger, not smaller, it about improving Frame Rate & Loading Times not saving HDD space. Rule of Thumb is Use Performance Monitor if your VRAM is high 100% 90% you need to Opt. If it 50% your ok, no Opt required.

 

You Don't Just Blindly Do It.

Edited October 13, 2016 by PeterMartyr

[dubiousintent]

Suggest you read this page on the TESTG site. You might also want to take a look at the Glossary section, as you are getting into an area where the correct terminology is important and often misused and confused. "Meshes" and "Textures" are related but different.

 

But in general, like many you are confusing two different aspects of "optimizing textures". Tools like PyFFI optimize by reducing vertices, removing unnecessary data, and generally making meshes better. This is "quality" but not what most people think of when they are referring to textures: which is "definition" or "resolution". The tool "Optimizer Textures" enables you to change the "resolution" of the textures from one definition (say 4096x4096) to a different one (say 1024x1024), but that is just one feature. Read the description on the link. Fortunately, tools for textures seem to work across the Bethesda game series.

 

However, a tool for one game's meshes (like PyFFI) will not necessarily work with those for another game. So far I haven't heard of an equivalent one for FO/FNV meshes. (The subject hasn't come up on this forum since I joined it in Nov.) I have, though, successfully used TES4LL and FNVLODGen on VWD/LOD files. (See the "VWD/LOD" page on that subject. Yet another related but separate aspect of texture files.)

 

-Dubious-

Edited October 13, 2016 by dubiousintent

[RoyBatterian]

I wouldn't do it unless you plan to do it manually with photoshop or gimp. You can use the wrong settings and degrade quality and performance. One thing the automated programs often do is convert DXT1 textures into DXT5 which is a completely stupid thing to do and a waste of vram. You can also destroy normal maps with speculars and other things by not knowing what you are doing. They often misdetect that textures have mipmaps, don't handle textures which are oddly sized yet powers of 4 and resize them etc etc.

[Fillout32]

Ok guys, thank you very much for your answers, but now i am confused a bit :laugh:

I thought, that informations in Fear and Loathing guide are essential for anyone who wants to mod NV properly. They even recommending to optimize vanilla textures...

 

I have a stock gtx 970+ WDDM 2.0, so VRAM shouldn´t be match of problem, but more importantly, i don´t want my game needlessly taking resources. As i said i want to run my game as effective as only possible and i willing to spend as much time tweaking it as it needs to.

 

My biggest point is, that i simply thought, that optimizing textures is basically same mandatory process as downloading 4GB patch, NVSR, setting iNumHWThreads=2....

 

So please clarify if it is same category as 4GB, or it is placebo, or it is completely redundant.

 

Thank you :nuke:

Edited October 14, 2016 by Fillout32

[dubiousintent]

Ask three experts and you will get three differing opinions. It's not that anyone is "wrong" as they have different approaches to situations. Everything is a trade-off of time versus effort.

 

Some just lay out a list of things and say "do this". Simple and effective, but not necessarily appropriate in every situation. Like "iNumHWThreads=2". If you read up on what the setting affects, it becomes clear that it's intended to be set to the number of core processors you have. Otherwise you are limiting yourself to only using 2 of them. Which is not to say the game engine will actually utilize all of them; just that it will now be aware of the capability. Many feel it has no effect, but actual tests comparing results are pretty much non-existent (as in I haven't found any, but haven't made it a point to dig very hard; the game will or it won't regardless of what I want but if I don't give it accurate info, there is no chance).

 

If your goal is to make your game as efficient as possible, then go ahead and try following the "Fear_and_Loathing_Texture_Optimization" guide. But be aware that any automated tool has codified certain choices that may not be correct in some circumstances (which is Roy's point). You are trusting that the end result will be a net improvement. Only testing will prove that. Roy is of the persuasion that the only way you can be sure of the correct result is to make the changes yourself, which entails learning how to mod correctly. I recognize that most players just want to get into the game as quickly as possible and content myself with pointing out the potential issues and tools that can help. Both of us see player education as a desirable goal, so we go into things beyond what something like "Fear and Loathing" does. EssArrBee has laid out a series of steps that will get you a good solid basic game. (I used it myself to setup this game, but with Wrye Flash instead of MO.) But it doesn't go into the various pros and cons of particular steps. (That would make it much too lengthy for the target audience and purpose.)

 

Ultimately you have to decide if the time spent optimizing textures is "mandatory". I didn't bother, because I have found more than minimal texture replacement (i.e. just NMC landscape) to create more problems than benefits on my older system, and the mod creators involved were experienced enough I trusted they had done things sufficiently efficiently. (Install "pretty" mods after you have a stable game. Then you will have a better idea of their impact. IIRC, I did "downsize" the NMC texture sizes to 1024x1024 as more efficient and good enough. But for stuff like "armor", normally I wouldn't bother as they are such a relatively small portion of any video display.)

 

Taking the time to try to get things "right" is time well spent. I spent a week educating myself and chose "gameplay" over "pretty" and with almost 400 hours without a single major problem at 30-60 FPS from day one, feel I made the right choices. Of course I have a lot of experience to speed up that learning curve.

 

I wouldn't call optimizing texture files "a placebo", but neither did I consider it "mandatory". OTOH, my end goal was a little different than yours: stability over efficiency. So, "it depends". But it was my choice, and you have the right to choose differently. We can't make that decision for you. However, we can try to help you make an informed choice. It's just sometimes things are not quite "good or bad" options.

 

-Dubious-

Edited October 14, 2016 by dubiousintent

[Fillout32]

Dubious, thank you for extensive post, i really appreciate that ! One month ago, i gave myself a goal, to put together ultimate Fallout game. You know, i actually having this game for over a year...

 

Back then, i was really inexperienced in modding, so i didn´t dare myself into some complex modding, when i bought the game. I just put in few essential mods and was playing. As i was playing, i started to realize, that a lot things not function in way, the mods i installed advertised. As i was progressing futher the game, immersion breaking bugs started to be more and more frequent. All this climaxed in Honest Hearts, where my game was crashing regularly and Cazadores were basically spawning from nowhere. Unacceptable. I unnistalled the game. I had like 110 hours clocked in. I was frustrated, as i-story-wise, atmosphere-wise and gameplay-wise- fell in love with that game.

 

It was 5 month later and i still hadn´t played it, in this time-at least-i discovered other gem named Dark Souls. After i finished DS1 and DS2, i started toying with idea about giving New Vegas a second chance. Eventually i did. It was a little bit better, than last time, but like last time-closer to end, the more problems occured. Just before i finished this playthrough, i had discoverd fnvedit. When i for first time saw how many conflicts i was actually having, i was feeling really badly. I was resigned. All my playthrough, i was thinking, that i having sound modded guns, but i hadn´t, because that mod was-as almost everything-conflict looser. Nevertheless, i quickly finished game to at least see ending and was looking forward, when i definitely unnistall this bloat.

Yet again i held on without Fallout for almost half a year, untill one month ago, when i decided to give it a third chance.

 

For last 5 weeks, i have been doing literally nothing else, than finally putting this game together by studying Nexus, looking for mods, reading their readme, reading corresponding discussions, testing mods, erasing them...I can only say, that my brain and Hdd really experiencing tough times, as i erasing and putting back fallout folder for like 3x-10 times a day.

 

Today i realised, that i could back up just data folder, instead of whole game directory, as i´ve been always doing it-needless to say, that it is too late :laugh:, which is actually good, because yesterday i´ve finally put together working build with all mods i wanted, so now i dealing finally with some "pretty" stuff-textures.

 

I basically agree with everything you wrote. I can only add, that time and effort are not a important for me, even oppositelly- the longer the wait is, bigger the reward will be...

 

I am not planning to add a lot of textures, just NMC medium and UHQ Terrain and clothes and armors replacers, but because i don´t regard myself as a person, who know how to "mod correctly" yet, i have to-if i want, or not-use automated tool

http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/46074/?tab=4&&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Fnewvegas%2Fajax%2Fcomments%2F%3Fmod_id%3D46074%26page%3D1%26sort%3DDESC%26pid%3D0%26thread_id%3D662883&pUp=1

 

According to local posts, it looks like realistic solution, not a placebo.

 

So because you didn´t discourage me from it, more like oppositely, i will just stick with Fear and Loathing guide, including texture optimization.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Fillout32

[dubiousintent]

Just as encouragement: there is a thread in the "Discussion" section called "Super-Modded Fallout Playthrough" which is plugging a "playthru" series of videos using 888 plugins. They have made available a list of the mods they are using. So, your goal IS achievable.

 

Good luck with it.

 

-Dubious-

[Fillout32]

Oh, well 888 plugins that's a lot. I am around 85, from which half are just minor fixes ready to be merged. My goal is to make game relatively lightweight and definitely vanilla-esque.

 

Mayby to conclude this topic, allow me to ask one question.

 

If you would have powerful pc and time was not a problem for you, which of following texture mods would you optimize ?

Landscapes: NMC medium, UHQ terrain, Wasteland flora overhaul

Armors, Apparel: Book of steel, Wasteland clothing HD retexture etc

Rest: Monster retexes, sandstorm texture, gloves textures

Edited October 15, 2016 by Fillout32

[dubiousintent]

I would defer to Roy's opinion, but run the Landscape textures through TES4LL and FNVLODGen. Those are (or should be) "low polygon" count textures because they are to be viewed in the distance. (Please read the "VWD/LOD" page on why they are different than other textures.) They need to go through FNVLODGen once you have your "load order" established, because it builds "quads" of adjacent blocks of 32x32 cells which are affected by the LO.

 

The other types of textures would be candidates to my mind. But again I would caution you to take the time to check the results individually.

 

-Dubious-