Blind Betrayal & Tactical Thinking

[Stargazer09]

I started Mass Fusion for the Institute then informed BOS and completed Spoils of War. Then I did Blind Betrayal. But when I went to speak to Maxson It triggered Tactical Thinking.

I'm not keen on making enemies of the RR, so I guess I'll just not speak to Maxson yet. But I have a couple of questions:

 

1. When will I be able to turn in BB without triggering TT? End of the main quest line?

2. If even after the main quest is completed, turning in BB will always result in starting TT, can I still use Danse as a companion? I spared his life, and since BOS members will shoot him on sight I intend to bring him with me to Nuka World to do the missions there, I'm guessing the BOS will never show up there.

 

[Moraelin]

1. STARTING Tactical Thinking doesn't really count. Maxson just sends you to talk to Kells at that point, you don't actually have any anti-RR orders yet, so no foul no harm yet. Actually talking to Kells is what actually makes you an enemy of the RR. So, you know, don't.

 

Of course, if you don't do TT, you can't go for the BOS ending, but then you knew that already.

 

Also, then you can never use the BOS to destroy Acadia, since that involves talking to Kells too. So talk to Kells before handing in BB if you want to shoot up Acadia. But most people don't want to destroy Acadia anyway, so no big problem there, I guess.

 

2. I haven't seen any of the main factions in NW or FH. The minutemen patrols sometimes show up at least in FH once you have settlements there, so I'm guessing the same would apply to NW if you go Open Season and make the Red Rocket there a MM settlement. But the BOS, nah.

[Moraelin]

That said, bear in mind that most companions don't have much to say about Nuka World, or really nothing non-generic. Preston has a lot to say, and IIRC Codsworth has some things to say about NW too. But others, no matter how much they'd realistically have a major bone to pick with your choices there, don't even seem to notice.

[Wunderbot]

Turning in Blind Betrayal automatically starts Tactical Thinking. Railroad won't be hostile yet or anything, but PAM will no longer interact with you for some odd reason. What I personally did was hand in Blind Betrayal and when receiving Tactical Thinking, I used the resetquest console command. Look up the quest ID for Tactical and use it. It'll remove Tactical Thinking, make PAM interact with you as normal (radiant quests etc.) and also make the Brotherhood, Kells and co, treat you like normal and give you their radiant quests. Only caveat: Kells will just give you radiant quests if you do this. He won't ever give you Tactical Thinking, so make sure you don't want to do that quest.

[Stargazer09]

Right, thanks guys. :)

[cossayos]

That said, bear in mind that most companions don't have much to say about Nuka World, or really nothing non-generic. Preston has a lot to say, and IIRC Codsworth has some things to say about NW too. But others, no matter how much they'd realistically have a major bone to pick with your choices there, don't even seem to notice.

 

It's the same the other way round. Gage goes all out generic if taking him to the Commonwealth or Far Harbor.

[TheSpaceShuttleChallenger]

Currently I have turned in Blind Betrayal, and started Tactical Thinking, but not spoken to Kells. Desdemona, Danse, and Maxon are all surprisingly unbothered by my affiliations with the others. But if you talk to Kells, it's all over. Even if you select the "f*#@ you I'm not gonna shoot up the railroad" dialogue option he'll just be like "no man you're totally gonna shoot up the railroad" and sure enough next time you try to enter the railroad there'll be Brotherhood guys shooting up the Railroad and Railroad guys shooting at you even if you shoot the Brotherhood guys (later, Maxon will congratulate you on... massacring all his dudes before reluctantly defending yourself against the Railroad?)

I don't know man. It's some really bad quest layout.

[Stargazer09]

Another thing that doesn't make sense to me - after completing Spoils of War I did Banished from the Institute, failing Underground Undercover. Prior to that I did Blind Betrayal except that I didn't turn it in, so the quest was still active.

Then going down the MM path, I did Defend the Castle. When I completed that, I got a notice saying I *failed* BB.

What's the logic? The 2 quests are for different factions and there's no connection I can see.

[Wunderbot]

Another thing that doesn't make sense to me - after completing Spoils of War I did Banished from the Institute, failing Underground Undercover. Prior to that I did Blind Betrayal except that I didn't turn it in, so the quest was still active.

Then going down the MM path, I did Defend the Castle. When I completed that, I got a notice saying I *failed* BB.

What's the logic? The 2 quests are for different factions and there's no connection I can see.

 

I think that might be because Defend the Castle can also be triggered when you become enemies with the Brotherhood and instead of Institute it'll be them attacking the Castle. The two probably use the same quest data and maybe that's what caused Betrayal to fail.