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Fallout 3 Load Order leading to crashes

TehBrillfighter

By TehBrillfighter
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TehBrillfighter Apprentice

TehBrillfighter

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Hello Nexus Forums,

 

I've recently returned to post-apocalyptic Washington DC and decided to utilise mods in a play-through for a second time; to extend the experience in various ways.

 

The problem is, evident from the title, is that upon playing for a varying amount of time (10-20 minutes roughly) the game will either crash during entering/exiting an area, combat or simply when exploring the wastes. The crashes do not seem to have any unique nature, and do not crash in particular areas constantly (With the exception of commonly visited areas like Megaton).

 

The plugin counts do not tally at a high number, primarily because I've utilised Paradox patches to reduce plugin counts, but also because I've removed mods before starting a new game to see if any changes to stability have been made (Spoilers: They didn't).

 

Without further ado, the load order:

 

Fallout3.esm=1
Anchorage.esm=1
ThePitt.esm=1
BrokenSteel.esm=1
PointLookout.esm=1
Zeta.esm=1
Unofficial Fallout 3 Patch.esm=1
CRAFT.esm=1
CALIBR.esm=1
Vault 101 Revisited.esm=1
Companion Core.esm=1
RobCo Certified v2.esm=1
EVE.esm=1
FO3 Wanderers Edition - Main File.esm=1
Mart's Mutant Mod.esm=1
DCInteriors_ComboEdition.esm=1
RH_IRONSIGHTS.esm=1
Mart's Mutant Mod - DC Interiors.esp=1
BetterGamePerformance.esp=1
DarNifiedUIF3.esp=1
CASM.esp=1
GNR Enhanced.esp=1
UPP - Pack 1.esp=1
UPP - Pack 2.esp=1
UPP - Experience Perks.esp=1
UPP - Quest Perks.esp=1
RobCo Certified v2 Omnipatch.esp=1
MZAllAccessPass.esp=1
Megaton House and Theme Overhaul.esp=1
FortIndependenceRedesigned.esp=1
WWM.esp=1
BlackWolf Backpack.esp=1
BlackWolf Backpack - Vendor Script Replenish.esp=1
BlackWolf Backpack - Blank's Container Patch.esp=1
FO3 Wanderers Edition - Main File.esp=1
FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Anchorage.esp=1
FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC The Pitt.esp=1
FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Broken Steel.esp=1
FO3 Wanderers Edition - Followers Enhanced (BrokenSteel).esp=1
FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Mothership Zeta.esp=1
FO3 Wanderers Edition - DLC Point Lookout.esp=1
FO3 Wanderers Edition - Optional VATS Halftime.esp=1
FO3 Wanderers Edition - Optional Restore Tracers (automatics only).esp=1
UUF3P - FWE Patch.esp=1
Blackened FWE + MMM + EVE.esp=1
Blackened RH + FWE + EVE.esp=1
WeaponModKits.esp=1
WeaponModKits - FWE Master Release.esp=1
WeaponModKits - BrokenSteel.esp=1
WeaponModKits - OperationAnchorage.esp=1
WeaponModKits - ThePitt.esp=1
WeaponModKits - Zeta.esp=1
WeaponModKits - PointLookout.esp=1
RH_WMK_Bridge.esp=1
SteinerCombatGear.esp=1
Echo_UseBothGloves.esp=1
Tactical Vest CIRAS.esp=1
Tactical Vest CIRAS - Vendor Restock Script.esp=1
Companion Core DLC Addon.esp=1
UWWUT.esp=1
UWWUT - The Pitt Addon.esp=1
UWWUT - Broken Steel Addon.esp=1
UWWUT - WMK Addon.esp=1
outcast_comp.esp=1
WWM-EVE-patch.esp=1
Max Level 99.esp=1
YearlingBooks.esp=1
ComboHeadgear.esp=1
ComboHeadgearOA.esp=1
ComboHeadgearPITT.esp=1
MergedPatch.esp=1

 

I've added most of the significant mods, and have utilised FWE over FOOK primarily because I heard it makes reasonably stable load orders a hell to deal with, plus it has much more support in terms of compatibility. Like previously stated, I'm using Paradox patches for EVE, RH_Ironsights and Marts Mutant Mod, with their compatibility patches found in Blackened and misc patches that require Paradox patches as a master.

 

I'll be honest, compatibility patches like Blackened seem alien to me since the last time I modded the game, so I wasn't 100% certain where to place them in the load order after using BOSS.

I'm using BOSS, primarily because I've read on forum posts that LOOT masterlists, while being superior in terms of updates, somehow manages to screw up the load order.

 

I've been using the guide here on the Nexus forums to steer me back on-course if need be, however I've had a reasonable amount of experience with Fallout New Vegas, Skyrim as well as Fallout 4 modding to know my way around the tools. For some reason however, Fallout 3 is a different beast entirely, and seems some-what limiting.

 

I've used pretty much every memory and stability tweak that I know of, or that I have researched on various forums, videos and guides. Including:

  • 4GB Memory Tweak
  • Core Limiting (bUseThreadedAI=1 + iNumHWThreads=2 as well as alternating to iNumHWThreads=1)
  • Windows compatibility mods for Service Pack 3, also providing administrator privileges to both fose_loader.exe and fallout3.exe
  • ENBoost, however this didn't seem to work (It would crash when loading a new save or trying to load an existing one)
  • Utilising a d3d9.dll which faked a lower VRAM video card (I'm actually using a GTX 780 Ti)
  • Setting Maximum pre-rendered frames to 1 and Multi-display/mixed-GPU acceleration to Single display performance mode in the Nvidia Control Panel

There could be more that I've attempted, however these are the major ones that people should know of.

 

I'm using a simple series of steps to create the load order:

  1. BOSS
  2. Wrye Flash (To check load order positioning and conflict)
  3. Fo3Edit (To check for conflicts, adjust the load order minimally and create a merged patch)

For the merged patches I keep making when adjusting load order, I'm manually going into the merged patch to solve conflicts where needed. Script conflicts in particular are usually left alone, as breaking a script could have a butterfly effect for quests, as well as game-play mechanics.

 

For Wrye Flash, I've manually gone through that as-well, adjusting the load order to the point where there is no Orange/Red check-boxes as well as no visible master issues (red highlights)

You can see that here:

http://i.imgur.com/hRrBmiN.png

 

As you can see from any time-stamps, I've been trying to mod this for a while, and have refrained from coming to any forum primarily because I don't want you to notice more of the same, however no matter how hard I look into mod descriptions and install instructions I cannot find an answer to my load order questions.

 

Please be critical of my load order, as I imagine it's definitely not optimal by any means. Also ask for additional information if you need it (I've tried to include most of what I've encountered)

I'm hoping any of you experienced mod gurus out there have the answer, thanks a bunch for reading.

 

Edit: If it helps in any way, I'm utilising a double-monitor setup. Not sure if Fallout 3 has a problem with dealing with it, especially if I'm forcing windowed borderless.

Using Fo3Edit, I've removed ITM records as well as undeleting and disabling references that would be needed by the mod.

Edited by TehBrillfighter
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TehBrillfighter Apprentice

TehBrillfighter

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Hello,

I'm very far from a load order expert, but I would suggest to make a try without "BetterGamePerformance",

(not just unchecked, but removed, deleted) and see if it makes a difference. (Don't use a save where it was part of the LO)

 

I'll try this. The idea of the mod was that it removes useless clutter not referenced by anything in order to decrease a cell's memory usage. I'll get back to you with the results

 

Edit: That wasn't the culprit sadly, creating a new game and merged patch with it removed still led to a crash upon entering a new area (Super Duper Mart straight from Vault 101)

I'll keep testing it though, thanks for the suggestion. Looking back at the mod now, it seemed idiotic to put it in there, but I didn't think that any mod that I'd install would try and reference a generic rock that isn't an object. I'll actually remove it from here on out, just because it could be causing SOME of the crashes now that you mention it. Also checking the nexus mod page returns some of the same information you've input, where it doesn't affect vanilla per-se, but can be dangerous for reasonably modded games.

Edited by TehBrillfighter
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Deleted1205226User

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The idea of the mod was that it removes useless clutter not referenced by anything in order to decrease a cell's memory usage.

 

I know. The correct statement would be: "not referenced by anything in Vanilla game." At this point nobody can tell if it removes something referenced from a mod in your LO.

 

I do hope it can help because from my limited point of view, it's the only thing I see.

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M48A5 Grand Master

M48A5

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According to the load order you have posted second, your Fallout3.esm is outdated. Most, if not all mods require Fallout3 v1.7.

 

Your FWE plugins are out of order. They should be in the same order as the DLCs.

 

Your WMK plugins are out of order. They should be in the same order as the DLCs.

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TehBrillfighter Apprentice

TehBrillfighter

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According to the load order you have posted second, your Fallout3.esm is outdated. Most, if not all mods require Fallout3 v1.7.

 

Your FWE plugins are out of order. They should be in the same order as the DLCs.

 

Your WMK plugins are out of order. They should be in the same order as the DLCs.

 

I'm using Steam GOTY edition more-or-less, so I guess I just took any updates for granted... The fact that is says 1.4 as it's version seems like a massive oversight on my part. This may be the cause of my crashes.

 

I'll adjust the load order accordingly, using Wrye Flash to double check, create a new merged patch and get back to you. I've seen you on a bunch of load order threads during load order research so I'm very appreciative of the help!

 

Edit: FOSE is detecting v1.7.0.3, while Wrye flash states it's V1.4?

Manually updating Fallout 3 yields the same response from Wrye Flash (1.4 in Wrye flash, 1.7.0.3 from FOSE)

 

Edit2: I've adjusted FWE and WMK plugins in the order it should be (Anchorage-Zeta) removed BetterGamePerformance permanently, validated the removed records and created a new merged patch.

From this, the game seems a lot more stable, and hasn't crashed yet. The only reason it crashed is because I was stress testing it with tcl and setgs fMoveRunMult 20 by running across the map, and the game would require 2x the normal amount of memory, and run out of memory locations to store (leading to ctd). For now, I've created a new game and will be going through it like normal, I'll obviously come and update this if anything changes. Thanks for help you two!

 

Edit3: The game is still experiencing crashes, honestly I'm stumped at this point, other than the fact that Windows and Nvidia have a vendetta against Fallout 3.

Edited by TehBrillfighter
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M48A5 Grand Master

M48A5

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According to the load order you have posted second, your Fallout3.esm is outdated. Most, if not all mods require Fallout3 v1.7.

 

Your FWE plugins are out of order. They should be in the same order as the DLCs.

 

Your WMK plugins are out of order. They should be in the same order as the DLCs.

 

I'm using Steam GOTY edition more-or-less, so I guess I just took any updates for granted... The fact that is says 1.4 as it's version seems like a massive oversight on my part. This may be the cause of my crashes.

 

I'll adjust the load order accordingly, using Wrye Flash to double check, create a new merged patch and get back to you. I've seen you on a bunch of load order threads during load order research so I'm very appreciative of the help!

 

Edit: FOSE is detecting v1.7.0.3, while Wrye flash states it's V1.4?

Manually updating Fallout 3 yields the same response from Wrye Flash (1.4 in Wrye flash, 1.7.0.3 from FOSE)

 

 

It would appear that the version number in Wrye Flash is a problem with Wrye Flash. I don't use it, so I can't be any help there.

 

Steam edition? I hope you did not install the game in the default steam location, ie: Program Files. If so, you will need to move both steam and the game to a location other than Program Files in order to successfully mod the game.

 

You do not need to use any d3d9.dll with the video card you have installed. If you have Windows 10 did you recently update it and/or update your Nvidia drivers?

 

The new updates for Windows, Nvidia and AMD are causing all kinds of problems.

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TehBrillfighter Apprentice

TehBrillfighter

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It would appear that the version number in Wrye Flash is a problem with Wrye Flash. I don't use it, so I can't be any help there.

 

Steam edition? I hope you did not install the game in the default steam location, ie: Program Files. If so, you will need to move both steam and the game to a location other than Program Files in order to successfully mod the game.

 

You do not need to use any d3d9.dll with the video card you have installed. If you have Windows 10 did you recently update it and/or update your Nvidia drivers?

 

The new updates for Windows, Nvidia and AMD are causing all kinds of problems.

 

 

Fair enough if you don't use Wrye Flash, it's probably not needed for somebody with your experience. Only use it if I bash patch instead of merge patch and/or if I want to verify a mod's recommended load order.

 

The game isn't installed into the default location, I make a habit of segmenting installs for different game versions (Not really applicable to F3) so I don't trust the steam defaults to do that.

 

Attempting to start a new game or load an existing game without the d3d9.dll crashes to desktop, no matter what I've tried. It currently fakes a Nvidia 7900 GS while I'm actually using a GTX 780 Ti.

If you have any idea how to evade this crash, let me know. As I say- it's been a while since I've touched Fallout 3 modding and I've upgraded my system since then.

 

In regards to updates, I always check to see if there's problems with latest drivers (Nvidia + Microsoft are the worst for bad drivers) and it's quite hard to find issues beforehand for a dated game like Fallout 3.

 

Edit: Come to think of it, it wouldn't surprise me if the latest Nvidia drivers cause a crash without d3d9.dll.

Also, I should mention that I am using Windows 10, which obviously comes with a heap of problems with older games.

 

Edit2: I'm still experiencing crashes, it actually lasted for 30-35 minutes before crashing this time, however loading back after the crash led to a crash 5 minutes later. I have no idea what is causing it, other than Nvidia drivers, my second monitor and/or Windows 10's vendetta against older games.

 

Edited by TehBrillfighter
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TehBrillfighter Apprentice

TehBrillfighter

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Download and install NVAC-New Vegas Anti Crash http://www.nexusmods.com/newvegas/mods/53635/?

 

Get the BETA version. It requires a manual download and installation. Just place the .dll in Fallout3/Data/Fose/plugins

 

It would be a good idea to read the latest comments on the NVAC page.

 

Alright, I'll read the documentation, install it and get back to you with any changes.

 

I should have actually read into something like this, so I'm glad there's well-informed people like yourself around.

Edited by TehBrillfighter
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