All quests are essentially...

[CelerasRingor]

^What he said Edited December 16, 2011 by CelerasRingor

[pannonian]

The Dark Brotherhood quests in Oblivion were more creative than that in Skyrim. The ending to skyrim's DB quest line was cooler but the assassinations needed to be more complex, or, even better, obvious parodies of famous murder novels/plots.

whodunit was funnn

 

Here is the reason why the Dark Brotherhood quest was done right, and stood out:

Emil Pagliarulo a developer for Bethesda, Pagliarulo's work can be seen in both Bloodmoon and Oblivion. In Oblivion, he was the developer in charge of the Dark Brotherhood Quest line. Before joining Bethesda, Pagliarulo worked for Eidos on the Thief series. This explains why he focused on the stealth-based Dark Brotherhood. He was the lead designer and writer for Fallout 3. In February 2009, he was honored as one of the Top 20 Game Writers by Gamasutra.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/General:Emil_Pagliarulo

 

:thumbsup:

Edited December 16, 2011 by pannonian

[hector530]

The Dark Brotherhood quests in Oblivion were more creative than that in Skyrim. The ending to skyrim's DB quest line was cooler but the assassinations needed to be more complex, or, even better, obvious parodies of famous murder novels/plots.

whodunit was funnn

 

Here is the reason why the Dark Brotherhood quest was done right, and stood out:

Emil Pagliarulo a developer for Bethesda, Pagliarulo's work can be seen in both Bloodmoon and Oblivion. In Oblivion, he was the developer in charge of the Dark Brotherhood Quest line. Before joining Bethesda, Pagliarulo worked for Eidos on the Thief series. This explains why he focused on the stealth-based Dark Brotherhood. He was the lead designer and writer for Fallout 3. In February 2009, he was honored as one of the Top 20 Game Writers by Gamasutra.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/General:Emil_Pagliarulo

 

:thumbsup:

 

he wrote the dark brotherhood quests in skyrim too

[Handofbane]

Be it the thief guild and the "clean blade" philosophy or the dark brotherhood sneaky assassinations, or even a lot of misc spread out every town, a lot of content isn't even remotely connected to dungeon clearing. What about saadia that can be dealt with at no blood spilled cost?

Thieves' guild is a bad example. The only quests there that are not dungeon crawlers are the radiant "rob this house/person/strongbox/forge this ledger" ones. Following the guild questline, you get all of one non-dungeon-type quest, which is the initial intro, that lasts all of about 60 seconds.

 

After that? Dungeon crawl through a mansion full of mercs, good luck not fighting there. Then? Dungeon crawl through tons of rats. Then a dungeon crawl through a warehouse/cave (you *can* sneak the first part but once you are in the cave, you are back to dungeon crawling). After those? More dungeon crawling til the very end. Not one quest within the main guild line includes the "do not kill, do not get caught" caveat that the radiant ones do.

 

While the Dark Brotherhood ones are only partially dungeon crawls, most of the rest (aside from the two related to the main ending) are extremely short with little chance of witnesses to worry about.

 

[Chaosrex]

Wow 80% of Kill quest in a RPG game!!!

 

Who would have though of that!!!...

 

Seriously?...name me one RPG game where you don't Kill/Beat something...

 

And quests that doesn't involve killing someone in other TES games?...yeah there is like 10 of them...when you count them all!

[abaris]

Wow 80% of Kill quest in a RPG game!!!

 

 

Not the point. You know beforehand that most every given quest consists of travel to A to kill B and bring item C to questgiver. And to top it off, there's the marker, so that even the perfect moron doesn't have to trouble themselves with some research.

 

The kill is not the issue. The repetitiveness is.

[kallik]

Be it the thief guild and the "clean blade" philosophy or the dark brotherhood sneaky assassinations, or even a lot of misc spread out every town, a lot of content isn't even remotely connected to dungeon clearing. What about saadia that can be dealt with at no blood spilled cost?

Thieves' guild is a bad example. The only quests there that are not dungeon crawlers are the radiant "rob this house/person/strongbox/forge this ledger" ones. Following the guild questline, you get all of one non-dungeon-type quest, which is the initial intro, that lasts all of about 60 seconds.

 

After that? Dungeon crawl through a mansion full of mercs, good luck not fighting there. Then? Dungeon crawl through tons of rats. Then a dungeon crawl through a warehouse/cave (you *can* sneak the first part but once you are in the cave, you are back to dungeon crawling). After those? More dungeon crawling til the very end. Not one quest within the main guild line includes the "do not kill, do not get caught" caveat that the radiant ones do.

 

While the Dark Brotherhood ones are only partially dungeon crawls, most of the rest (aside from the two related to the main ending) are extremely short with little chance of witnesses to worry about.

 

 

I daresay you are in the wrong. Once again, did you even try to do the game and avoid fights? If you do you will see there is a huge amount of stealth-oriented content. It even looks like they did a lot of effort always letting the player get out of every situation with every possible playstyle.

 

 

Talking about the main quest, you are obviously trolling. Most of them are higly designed quest (not just dungeon crawling). Ok you have to get a stone once in whiterun, but you should have gotten your hand onto it while helping the trader get his claw back. The dungeon is extremely short and easy. After that? No dungeon for lon: Guards kill your dragon for you, then you go climbing steps, then you get to do a fake dungeon that can be sneaked from a to z to en ending with no boss to fight... Then you have to sneak at a party to get some datas etc.

 

 

The kill is not the issue. The repetitiveness is.

 

I disagree. Though we could say that some quests are more designed (guilds and main quest mostly) with much talking, following and complex NPC behavior, and other quests are more basics - even the basic ones are categorized into a great number of them.

Yes, some consist in "go clear a dungeon, a bandit camp, kill a dragon" but a huge number is "talk to someone and persuade", "play tag with children", "bring that loot to x", "read the book to understand", and others that can't even be classified given how much they are refined and uniques. Not even talking about the subtelty and complexity of most daedra...

 

Anyway I won't convince anyone that this game is fine especially in term of content (much more to say on mechanics: of armor, pertinence of perks or magic damage scaling).

 

But I won't let someone who didn't try to see an entire aspect of the game say it doesn't exist. Stop taking quests from jarls and housecarls and get an immersive RP behavior, and you will see how rich every city, every landscape and every abandonned building really is.

[abaris]

 

Anyway I won't convince anyone that this game is fine especially in term of content (much more to say on mechanics: of armor, pertinence of perks or magic damage scaling).

 

 

You don't need to convince me. This game is indeed fine in many aspects. But there are issues. Pointing them out doesn't mean I dislike the product as a whole. But knowing the issues and there seem to be quite a few people having them, might help when it comes to modifying the game.

[Korodic]

...go into this dangerous place, get to the end by killing everybody, and come back.

 

Seriously, I am not even joking. Everything from the main quest to the Whiterun dead tree quest. I have yet to come across a quest where you don't have to kill anyone, or at least not wiping out a whole dungeon. I don't even want to know what happens in guilds...

 

Remember how in Oblivion you had those twin brothers that you had to re-unite together and restore their house in the wilderness?

 

Remember how in Morrowind you could shake down that annoying little elf, after you help him. Fargoth wasn't it?

 

Remember Glarthir? That elf in Skingrad that you used to meet every midnight to tell him whether he is being watched by them people? Remember his rampage with a battleaxe the next morning?

 

I could just go on... Skyrim doesn't seem very in depth at all for some reason...

 

I strongly disagree.

 

Be it the thief guild and the "clean blade" philosophy or the dark brotherhood sneaky assassinations, or even a lot of misc spread out every town, a lot of content isn't even remotely connected to dungeon clearing. What about saadia that can be dealt with at no blood spilled cost?

 

Maybe you don't pick the quests you chose to do the right way... If you're rampaging through dungeons and coming back to town with a blood stained heavy armor and two-handed warhammer, just to do the jarls next dirty work, then it's no wonder you keep on having the same cleaning duties repeated. And I couldn't understand less your point of view since the white run dead tree quest is tipically one wich much walking and talking and few fights... If you try to play it that way.

 

Don't go running and stomping to after turn back and watch your trail to complain how bloody it was.

 

I personally play master mode only, played a sneak ranger, a grosbill and an illusion mage and could handle things very differently in each case.

 

You say you don't want to try guilds, so I just assume you didn't base your statements on solid in-depth experience of the game. Guilds have very strong scenarii and a lot of diversity and fun. If you only did the main quest and some errands for your local whiterun jarl you should maybe spend less time trolling and more time questing before giving a drastic opinion.

 

I've completed 100 + quests. They are pretty much all like this. Yes I understand there are infinite quests that are bound to repeat themselves. The dark brotherhood seemed a little less creative than it was in Oblivion, and the College of winterhold was... eh. Like I thought there definitely could have been more to enrich the experience.

 

dragr and falmer are too common of an opponent as well...

[Handofbane]

Be it the thief guild and the "clean blade" philosophy or the dark brotherhood sneaky assassinations, or even a lot of misc spread out every town, a lot of content isn't even remotely connected to dungeon clearing. What about saadia that can be dealt with at no blood spilled cost?

Thieves' guild is a bad example. The only quests there that are not dungeon crawlers are the radiant "rob this house/person/strongbox/forge this ledger" ones. Following the guild questline, you get all of one non-dungeon-type quest, which is the initial intro, that lasts all of about 60 seconds.

 

After that? Dungeon crawl through a mansion full of mercs, good luck not fighting there. Then? Dungeon crawl through tons of rats. Then a dungeon crawl through a warehouse/cave (you *can* sneak the first part but once you are in the cave, you are back to dungeon crawling). After those? More dungeon crawling til the very end. Not one quest within the main guild line includes the "do not kill, do not get caught" caveat that the radiant ones do.

 

While the Dark Brotherhood ones are only partially dungeon crawls, most of the rest (aside from the two related to the main ending) are extremely short with little chance of witnesses to worry about.

 

 

I daresay you are in the wrong. Once again, did you even try to do the game and avoid fights? If you do you will see there is a huge amount of stealth-oriented content. It even looks like they did a lot of effort always letting the player get out of every situation with every possible playstyle.

 

 

Talking about the main quest, you are obviously trolling. Most of them are higly designed quest (not just dungeon crawling). Ok you have to get a stone once in whiterun, but you should have gotten your hand onto it while helping the trader get his claw back. The dungeon is extremely short and easy. After that? No dungeon for lon: Guards kill your dragon for you, then you go climbing steps, then you get to do a fake dungeon that can be sneaked from a to z to en ending with no boss to fight... Then you have to sneak at a party to get some datas etc.

 

You didn't read what I actually said did you? Nowhere did I mention the main quest (which, by the way, occupies all of about 5% of all the non-radiant quests ingame), I was specifically referring to the Thieves' Guild and Brotherhood. And with the detection AI, good luck pulling those off with pure stealth, not killing anyone without having spent time sitting behind some NPC in town for an hour getting your Sneak skill to 60+, especially with the first quest outside town. And once again, the Thieves' Guild does not once during their primary quest line apply the "do not kill, do not get caught" rule that applied in previous titles, only counting it on the radiant quests.