Fallout 4 Roleplaying overhaul (Or how to fix Fallout 4)

[Gohstly]

One of the biggest issues most people have with fallout 4 is the fact that the player character for the most part has a predetermined backstory. The game starts to get really stale after your first play through unlike in New Vegas and fallout 3 where there are plenty of different choices you can make when you build your character.

I came up with the idea to make a mod to alleviate most of the major issues of the game however i do not possess the skill required to make such a mod.

 

The aim of the mod would be to allow for more Roleplaying freedom by altering as well as removing certain elements from the main questline. such as the PC having a voice, as well as having a child or spouse. The issue behind this is the fact that the main quest is largely focused on finding the sole survivors missing son. How can the main quest be altered in order to fix this?

 

1. Remove Shaun and Nora from the intro sequence. This might be a bit of a challenge, Imagine after making your character, you leave the mirror to find that only Codsworth is there to greet you. everything else for the most part is the same where you greet the Vault Tec representative, a few dialogue changes but mostly remains the same. The alarms go off and you then head off to vault 111 where you are cryogenically frozen. alternatively the game could instead start with character creation and it skips to the player awakening from the cryo pod.

 

2. Alter the main questline to alter everything from before Act 3 (after the quest "institutionalized") essentially the first portion of the main quest focuses on looking for the player characters son. The mod would change the way the quest-line structure works where instead of it being done in a sequence the quest can be done in any order much like in New Vegas. The minutemen quest line would start as usual except Mama Murphy would not instruct the player to go to diamond city. All of the branching quests after Act 3 can be started at any point in the game. The main quest instead would start from finding Kelogg in Fort Hagen. The "dangerous minds quest" would be altered to where the couple killed in Keloggs memory would not resemble the player character. it would instead be two different characters. The biggest challenge would be changing the institute quest, which would most likely require a major overhaul due to all the references to the player characters back story it has. Shaun would have to be altered to have a set appearance rather than resembling both the male and female characters. Synth Shaun would also have to be remove entirely as well as Synth Shaun from all branching questlines.

 

3. Remove player voice. This is the biggest issue with the game for a variety of different reasons. We could spend all day listing reasons why this should not have been included in the game. However the best reason for this to be removed is to edit dialogue where the player character discusses his/her backstory.

 

4. Traits. One thing Bethesda failed to do was take any of the things established in New Vegas and implement it into Fallout 4. One of these such things would be being able to give the player character Traits. There are many mods that do this but I feel this mod would feel more like an overhaul mod if this were included. Helping increase roleplay elements

Edited October 24, 2016 by Gohstly

[AuroraMoon]

One way this could work, is if you were a random character who lived next door to the couple with their infant son. This way you could choose that you were friends with them, or not that close to them. Maybe you could care less about your neighbors! You could tell codsworth all this in the opening scene, and have it affect what happens next in the following scenes.

 

And in the "escape from the vault" scene, they asked you to look for their son and then died afterwards because Kellogg had put an bullet in them before refreezing them. Kellogg did this to ensure that none of them would go after him should they somehow escape from their pods. But what he didn't count on was the random neighbor person who may or may not care about what happened to his neighbors' infant son.

 

I think that could really work. It would go a great deal to explaining some of the weird crap in fallout 4... like, why would an parent with a missing baby take the time to do all those side quests and also take all that time to build settlements??

If you were just a random neighbor person, then it would explain this better. After all, even though you may or may not have promised the parents that you would find out what happened to their baby, you're not THAT invested in the main story-line like they would had been. After all... it's not like the baby is related to you or anything.

 

And not to sound cold, but you have far more pressing concerns like the fact that you need to live in a irradiated wasteland now.

I approve of this request, and would love this myself too.

[audiodef]

I like all these ideas a lot. I use an alt start mod, but that only takes care of where you come from. You still have a missing infant son. (For that matter, why does it have to be a son? Why not a daughter, if the leader of the Institute has to be related to you at all?)

 

I think this would be a much better game if the leader of the Institute were just that, and not your relative. There was never a clear reason why it has to be Shaun - only some vague BS about unspoiled genes, which is not even relevant because the Institute makes Synths, not biological people.

[AuroraMoon]

I agree, Audiodef. It made no sense that it had to be the baby at all... considering that most of the vault dwellers that was frozen had "unspoiled genes", they didn't have enough exposure to nuclear fallout long enough for their genes to become warped. It should had been a vault dweller that was kidnapped at random, changing each time with new games. that would had increased the re-play value I think.

[Gohstly]

One way this could work, is if you were a random character who lived next door to the couple with their infant son. This way you could choose that you were friends with them, or not that close to them. Maybe you could care less about your neighbors! You could tell codsworth all this in the opening scene, and have it affect what happens next in the following scenes.

 

And in the "escape from the vault" scene, they asked you to look for their son and then died afterwards because Kellogg had put an bullet in them before refreezing them. Kellogg did this to ensure that none of them would go after him should they somehow escape from their pods. But what he didn't count on was the random neighbor person who may or may not care about what happened to his neighbors' infant son.

 

I think that could really work. It would go a great deal to explaining some of the weird crap in fallout 4... like, why would an parent with a missing baby take the time to do all those side quests and also take all that time to build settlements??

If you were just a random neighbor person, then it would explain this better. After all, even though you may or may not have promised the parents that you would find out what happened to their baby, you're not THAT invested in the main story-line like they would had been. After all... it's not like the baby is related to you or anything.

 

And not to sound cold, but you have far more pressing concerns like the fact that you need to live in a irradiated wasteland now.

 

I approve of this request, and would love this myself too.

Thats mostly what im getting at. Another nice touch could be if you could see Nate and Nora with their son while you are entering vault 111.

Edited October 26, 2016 by Gohstly

[jimmygitto]

Great idea, and seems like there could be a lot of potential ways for a talented modder to use what's there to good effect. (I wish I was one.)

 

It's funny what you said, AuroraMoon, because when I started playing FO4 I had the same thoughts about how hard it was to imagine being able to justify doing anything else in the game except immediately and relentlessly chase after my son, and the weirdo that kidnapped him (and who for some inexplicable reason shot my wife but left me alone). And I told my friends that were also playing that I took this logic- "Well, Shaun is actually safer inside the institute than out here in this irradiated murderous wasteland. They took him for a reason, so they must be looking after him... And, you know, I should learn my way around and set up some decent chance of survival for us both before I go forcibly take him back, so... I guess I'll go do a thousand other things before I, you know, go rescue my kidnapped son and avenge my senselessly murdered wife."

 

And I agree completely that it does severely limit replayability. Very strange how linear and forced Bethesda made the story. I am among the many who were disappointed with that aspect, especially since some of the innovations in the game from previous versions were pretty cool. Honestly I've ended up just kind of escaping to my "conquered" falloutworld and enjoying new mods here and there instead of playing through again, because I know replaying will annoy me.

 

The neighbor idea is a great one! Like, in the emotional moments before the bombs, the couple asks you if you'd look after their newborn if something happens to them. So, depending on your moral character, you can either try your best (at your leisure!) to make good on a quick promise you made to these people, or say hey not my problem I got my own tenuous survival to worry about.

 

Maybe synth Shaun could be made into the real kid for the purposes of the mod, and the Institute leader is just another guy (and therefore less weird to just blow up his life's work). The timeline of vault thaw-out would need to be altered in that case I suppose, but doable. Or maybe there is a simple re-telling of how he grew up to take over the Institute (hey he would have observed its workings from birth) that discards the silly untainted genes nonsense.

 

I used to wonder how the story could be altered to give us back the Fallout Freedom we love so much, but it really was hard to conceive. The story locks you in so awfully. But this neighbor/friend idea has serious potential! Thanks!

[montky]

this is an interesting thread!

these discussions always lead to awesome lore tangents and whatnot.

 

much can be achieved via new lands, quest mods and misc mods overhaul.

my mod fu is limited,

though most of what follows can be achieved with mods presently on Nexus...

yet I can assist in other ways...

 

// lore ramble ensues...

 

roland barthes concept of 'personal canon', as scott mcCloud reflects on too,

is something definitely in back of mind.

 

that said,

in post #1, points 2 and 3 I can agree with wholeheartedly -

a lot of the story arcs, morality and karma system, etc...

they're missing from the game entirely,

and its those multiple endings or open-branching which makes FO fun.

RPGing and being able to non-violently resolve things,

or out-maneuver the opponent to detente, that was cool about FO3 and FONV.

 

I disagree with point 1 though - that is a main arc.

is it austin powers-ish? a little...

having a descendant stolen, and journeying to find your descendent is an awesome story thread.

wondering if they are still a minor, and then the twist of them being much older than you thought...

it was awesome.

 

if only the User could customise the relationship -

maybe it is male-male, male-female, female-female,

and the descendant is male, female, a pre-war mutant etc...

In previous games, you could name your characters...

so that didn't make as much sense.

more customisation there would be fun, but in the abstract,

the quest is still workable IMHO.

"Nate" "nora" "shaun" are placeholders - they are representative of what a player can place there...

 

"shaun" (player.descendant) is still vital to the Institute,

though the institute is of 2 factions by 2280s...

the 'good' institute - head of retention who travel to rivet city, is actually part of the rail-road etc...

head of manufacture, head of genetic research, doctor li... all part of the 'good' faction.

This faction likes the institute helping above ground, and may feel bad about University Point, or the Enclave...

the prydwyn was obtained peacefully, by the unified BoS (who are 'good'),

and I'd like to think the head of SRB revealed much to the BoS, as did the android that was at Rivet City.

Sentinel Star Paladin Lyons is not dead, she is head of recon corp.

Veronica of FONV is also not dead - restored to the Silver Circle, a high council restored by Arch Elder Maxson, descendant of Roger Maxson

The Good Institute, the minutemen, Diamond City, the railroad, the atom cats, and the BoS can all be in amity with each other...

maybe even the Cabot Family (Lorenzo too).

It would take time, and a lot of diplomacy, though they could form relationships.

 

the bad institute - this is infiltrated by an Enclave remnant,

and despises above ground. this faction was discovered by Virgil... and are the source of commonwealth supermutants mostly...

this faction blew up the University Point area when it was discovered as an

access point to the Enclave...

The bad institute, the enclave and pre-war bots factions would align.

 

Maybe, Kellogg was set-up somewhat...

maybe, Kellogg is partly himself, and partly overridden, used by a third party...

this makes Kellogg more sympathetic than

a botched Dengar-esque bounty hunter...

 

Kellogg ought to be redeemable, brought into a settlement as a 'caravan guard'

or as a pastor at a settlement for extra morale etc...

Or, useable as a hitman to raid settlements, for the Enclave,

or as a fiefal lord for raider faction...

 

-----

I digress,

as to V111...

there are hints indeed.

hints that, this vault was connected to

Tranquility Lane, and Stanislaus Braun may have taken personal interest in that vault...

The Enclave may not have known of Stanislaus' vault, or if he survived... so V111 would be of interest to Enclave.

V111s bodies are frozen. they show nearly no signs of life... the machines at V111s end are encoded by Vault Tec,

to prevent others not authorized, from knowing about the true purpose of the vault, as is Vault Tec's evil ways.

though, their consciousness is in tranquility lane...

They can be revived. Your player-partner could be revived...

 

by 2290s, The Vault Tec Rep has become the new Overseer of

V111, an interim governor of what will become the Boston equivalent of

the BoS super-bunker-state known as 'Maxson/Maxxon"...

The Vault Tec Rep, with a representative from the NCR, and the BoS,

hold in absentia, a trial of Vault Tec at V111 in the late 2290s.

the corpses of the three most senior Vault Tec representatives, or, what is left of them...

are brought to the overseers quarters at V111.

there, they are found posthumously guilty of crimes against humanity, by the Vault Tec Rep...

 

V111, under sanctuary, Red Rocket Concord North are all connected underground,

from where the Enclave have attempted to 'sap' into V111 (they couldn't get the door open, due to signs of a riot etc,

the door was locked from inside with no override possible, and no way to blast in from topside...)

This project took a toll on the Enclave... they only breached V111s outer superstructure in the early

2210-2220s.

this subterranean work forms much of the basis for the later BoS superbunker they build there...

 

-----

 

Power Armor should be more like a Tank,

and an end-game level item.

T45 the torso cannot pivot, and it turns slowly and sharply,

you cannot use terminals as the fingers are not designed for precision work, and your weapon condition in

weapons not designed for power armor (big guns), will degrade per shot fired while in power armor...

T45s can only be embarked at a power armor station - you can only 'eject', which will make the t45 suit stuck.

If you fall down, you will be stuck and have to eject. walk speed is slow, run-speed is non-existent.

T45s were designed as a squad suppressive firepower and behind-lines supply tool, not quite for recon or frontline combat.

A T45a is a sentrybot upper with t45 'legs'. it is a prototype preceeding the SentryBots which later had 3 wheels etc.

 

T51 is more common, it can pivot 70 degrees, and you can access terminals while in armor. You can enter or exit with a companion,

but you will be vulnerable - and noisy- while doing so.

T60 is rare, it can pivot a full 180 degrees, responds much faster, and you can use terminals. Weapons do not degrade while in a T60 or X01...

you can also embark and disembark WITHOUT a pit crew.

X01 is ultra-rare. It has the fastest response time, and adds bonuses to reflex, intimidation etc... weapons dont degrade, and you can embark or disembark quickly.

having it handed to the player immediately untrained is bizarre...

also...

 

how many people do you know, who go to 2 sessions of reserves or cadets,

and within 3 months are promoted to 4 star general?

in FO4, if you play as "nora", you go from civilian to 4 star general of BoS in 3 months.

not once, but thrice over -

General of Minutemen,

Leader of Institute, or Field Agent of RailRoad,

Sentinel/Elder of BoS

 

At MOST, you earn apprentice/squire rank, honorary,

for saving paladin Brandis or Danse...

 

you have a power armor, it take a core,

the only weapon? a lazer which take the same core. you have only 1 core...

you have an 8% margin of error, but if you work together,

you can crawl forward, swap the power armor, and arm the cannon,

defeat a wave of enemies,

swap the core, defend , crawl forward...

rinse and repeat.

THAT is how you earn your field promotion, reluctantly, to the BoS.

it is not possible to be made Sentinel or Elder or Star Paladin.

the highest attainable rank? Knight, at high end-game...

 

-----------

// end lore rant

 

Thanks for reading -

this is the product of a lot of conversations and FORPGing with

other fallout fans who made FO4 more awesome.

[Gohstly]

 

 

this is an interesting thread!

these discussions always lead to awesome lore tangents and whatnot.

 

much can be achieved via new lands, quest mods and misc mods overhaul.

my mod fu is limited,

though most of what follows can be achieved with mods presently on Nexus...

yet I can assist in other ways...

 

// lore ramble ensues...

 

roland barthes concept of 'personal canon', as scott mcCloud reflects on too,

is something definitely in back of mind.

 

that said,

in post #1, points 2 and 3 I can agree with wholeheartedly -

a lot of the story arcs, morality and karma system, etc...

they're missing from the game entirely,

and its those multiple endings or open-branching which makes FO fun.

RPGing and being able to non-violently resolve things,

or out-maneuver the opponent to detente, that was cool about FO3 and FONV.

 

I disagree with point 1 though - that is a main arc.

is it austin powers-ish? a little...

having a descendant stolen, and journeying to find your descendent is an awesome story thread.

wondering if they are still a minor, and then the twist of them being much older than you thought...

it was awesome.

 

if only the User could customise the relationship -

maybe it is male-male, male-female, female-female,

and the descendant is male, female, a pre-war mutant etc...

In previous games, you could name your characters...

so that didn't make as much sense.

more customisation there would be fun, but in the abstract,

the quest is still workable IMHO.

"Nate" "nora" "shaun" are placeholders - they are representative of what a player can place there...

 

"shaun" (player.descendant) is still vital to the Institute,

though the institute is of 2 factions by 2280s...

the 'good' institute - head of retention who travel to rivet city, is actually part of the rail-road etc...

head of manufacture, head of genetic research, doctor li... all part of the 'good' faction.

This faction likes the institute helping above ground, and may feel bad about University Point, or the Enclave...

the prydwyn was obtained peacefully, by the unified BoS (who are 'good'),

and I'd like to think the head of SRB revealed much to the BoS, as did the android that was at Rivet City.

Sentinel Star Paladin Lyons is not dead, she is head of recon corp.

Veronica of FONV is also not dead - restored to the Silver Circle, a high council restored by Arch Elder Maxson, descendant of Roger Maxson

The Good Institute, the minutemen, Diamond City, the railroad, the atom cats, and the BoS can all be in amity with each other...

maybe even the Cabot Family (Lorenzo too).

It would take time, and a lot of diplomacy, though they could form relationships.

 

the bad institute - this is infiltrated by an Enclave remnant,

and despises above ground. this faction was discovered by Virgil... and are the source of commonwealth supermutants mostly...

this faction blew up the University Point area when it was discovered as an

access point to the Enclave...

The bad institute, the enclave and pre-war bots factions would align.

 

Maybe, Kellogg was set-up somewhat...

maybe, Kellogg is partly himself, and partly overridden, used by a third party...

this makes Kellogg more sympathetic than

a botched Dengar-esque bounty hunter...

 

Kellogg ought to be redeemable, brought into a settlement as a 'caravan guard'

or as a pastor at a settlement for extra morale etc...

Or, useable as a hitman to raid settlements, for the Enclave,

or as a fiefal lord for raider faction...

 

-----

 

Power Armor should be more like a Tank,

and an end-game level item.

T45 the torso cannot pivot, and it turns slowly and sharply,

you cannot use terminals as the fingers are not designed for precision work, and your weapon condition in

weapons not designed for power armor (big guns), will degrade per shot fired while in power armor...

T45s can only be embarked at a power armor station - you can only 'eject', which will make the t45 suit stuck.

If you fall down, you will be stuck and have to eject. walk speed is slow, run-speed is non-existent.

T45s were designed as a squad suppressive firepower and behind-lines supply tool, not quite for recon or frontline combat.

A T45a is a sentrybot upper with t45 'legs'. it is a prototype preceeding the SentryBots which later had 3 wheels etc.

 

T51 is more common, it can pivot 70 degrees, and you can access terminals while in armor. You can enter or exit with a companion,

but you will be vulnerable - and noisy- while doing so.

T60 is rare, it can pivot a full 180 degrees, responds much faster, and you can use terminals. Weapons do not degrade while in a T60 or X01...

you can also embark and disembark WITHOUT a pit crew.

X01 is ultra-rare. It has the fastest response time, and adds bonuses to reflex, intimidation etc... weapons dont degrade, and you can embark or disembark quickly.

having it handed to the player immediately untrained is bizarre...

also...

 

 

 

 

I agree that it works as a story, and in a lot of other types of games having to find your missing child would work but for a role playing game it really limits freedom of character creation. And pretty much the whole concept behind shaun and being cryogenically frozen has already been done to death (one prime example I can think of is the game SNATCHER for sega CD which pretty much the entire plot for the game had been taken from.)

I will agree however that its really hard to make a coherent plot out of the game when Shaun is removed from the picture since he is the primary motivator that drives the plot in this game.

....However that being said I do understand that even if shaun is modded out its definitely going to leave a lot of patches in the story, but to make fallout 4 a better role playing game it is what I see as a necessary sacrifice

 

With the talk of cliches in mind i remember before the game had come out people were talking about the possibility of the protagonist being a synth. while this has also been overused by a lot of games I think it would have been interesting and have lead to more role play possibilities. The live another life mod does this in fact and I feel it really works well with the game and i feel its the route Betrhesda should have gone with the game if they wanted to make a good role playing game while still appealing to the casual audience by having a story to follow.

 

As to what you said about power armor. I have and have always had mixed feelings. I really feel like you get power armor way too early in game but to counter balance that power armor now has to be upgraded to get the full potential as well as having to use fusion cores in order to be able to even use power armor. I dont think either feature should be removed but power armor should still be much more powerful (even without any upgrades) and in order to balance this even more the player should have to obtain power armor training either from a perk or by joining the brotherhood. In the vanilla game this is explained away by the fact the male protagonist has military experience, though its never properly explained for the female character, who I really feel like was a last minute thought in order to allow more choice for players. (and to prevent media backlash)

Edited October 27, 2016 by Gohstly

[SpoiledCabbage]

The Institute should of lobotomized their Synth servants with only the Synth infiltrators possessing emotions so they may blend in with the population with the added risk that they may develop the drive to rebel. Then the Railroad could of been formed by these emancipated Synth infiltrators instead of a bunch wackos.

[AuroraMoon]

The Institute should of lobotomized their Synth servants with only the Synth infiltrators possessing emotions so they may blend in with the population with the added risk that they may develop the drive to rebel. Then the Railroad could of been formed by these emancipated Synth infiltrators instead of a bunch wackos.

 

You know, I thought they had a good potential for a story-line there with the railroad and the institute. But I was let down that they didn't explore it that fully like I wanted them to.

 

I mean... There you have the institute, who tends to treat their gen 3 like the gen 1's. Like they're robots, despite the fact that gen 3's are actually cloned humans with a hardwired, computerized brain. They're so used to thinking of Synths as something like robots, that they don't even seem to realize the implications of man-made sapient human beings and using them like slaves. They're so used to dehumanizing the gen 1's and the gen 2's that they don't even see that gen 3 is different.

I can't help but understand why they view the synths that way, but also recognize that the way they went about it is wrong. I can see why the railroad exists in the first place.

 

I kind of wish there had been a peace option... a way to get the railroad and the institute to meet together and discuss this like rational adults instead of acting like this is a completely polarized issue where only one of them is wrong and and other one is always right.

It'd be interesting if Railroad also got to see that some of their activism was actually doing more harm than good, like with that synth raider dude you had to capture for the institute. Or that some of the synths ended up wanting the real person's life more than they wanted a new life of their own, simply because of the fact that they were hardwired. They couldn't help themselves, etc.... they want to be human, etc and so naturally they want the life their fully human counterparts lead.

 

Put simply, you could get the two organizations see eye to eye on why the two of them did things that they had to do, etc.

 

There was also something else about the gen 3 synths I couldn't help but wonder about. Namely, can humans and synths come together to breed offspring or what? I mean, they're cloned human beings but somehow they don't age or gain weight?? Something about that doesn't make sense. If they're cloned human beings they should be able to breed with humans and lead a human life. They should age and die normally like anybody else.

It'd be interesting if we had a story line where we discovered that some humans and synths fell in love with each other, had children, etc. Maybe some of the people in the railroad was the result of such a union, and that's why they feel so strongly about synth rights.