Deleting objects

[Jeoshua]

Lately I've been going through the list I have old both old and new mods which have reports of the game crashing with the mod installed. Overwhelmingly, I have found this to be true:

 

It's because of deleted objects.

 

Sure, some times there is another bug, but 9 times out of 10 there is a record marked as DELETED in the mod, which another mod then tries to modify later. This leads to the game crashing, and crashing hard.

 

Now, my question is this: Why do people delete these records? I understand that they don't want a tree right in the middle of their brand new house, or whatever, but these kind of changes to the master files, and especially the scripted permanent records lead to instability.

 

A solution:

1) Open the file up in fo3edit

2) Right click on the left-hand pane

3) Select Apply Filter, choose ONLY "Conflict Status Inherited By Parent"

4) Wait a minuite

5) Right click on the file name

6) Select "Undelete and Disable References" and "Remove Identical To Master Records"

 

This simple process will stop these kind of problems DEAD in their tracks. The objects will still be gone, but not in a way that causes the game to crash. For evidence of this working, check out my Dust-Away mod, specifically the Clean-Deluxe GOTY edition download. Over 60k records were removed from the game in a way that is guaranteed not to cause any crashes. All by setting them as "initially disabled" instead of DELETED

 

This is information that needs to be given to ALL mod authors, not just you guys who are reading this. It's required for a properly stable mod.

Edited December 15, 2011 by Jeoshua

[Quetzlsacatanango]

Ignorance mostly, with a dash of "I've never noticed any problems" and a smidge of "no one else will mod this same object, I'm sure of it."

[shiholude]

I had started an article some time ago asking about the proper way to eliminate a file. I got little to no feedback. Therefore, I agree with Quetz - it's simply an ignorance thing.

 

I have always tried to weigh the performance vs risk assessment when it comes to this myself. In some cases, like rocks and ground debris, deleting them didn't seem to effect any mod, as they aren't used as reference items (correct me if I am wrong). When it comes to any other object that can be interacted with, it makes no sense to delete it.

 

In the end, using the "Initially disabled" method is the best route. All this does is place the item at a -30,000 z axis location, typically placing it out of any rendering possibility, while not disrupting other mods harshly. Continued exposure and support of this method is the only way the word will get out and people will STOP deleting needed objects.

 

-Shiholude

[Jeoshua]

IIn some cases, like rocks and ground debris, deleting them didn't seem to effect any mod, as they aren't used as reference items (correct me if I am wrong).

 

Love ya Shi.

 

But I actually had to struggle to make the DLC improvements in Fallout Remastered not crash and burn with BA_WastelandRestored installed because of the deleted objects. I won't play the game without your mod so I needed them to be compatible :unsure:

 

The DLCs deleted a lot of objects. Wasteland Restored had them deleted, too. I tried setting them as disabled and boom crash burn with all three installed at once.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Jeoshua

[Fatalmasterpiece]

This remind me of the thread on "Scope" of mods. Simply, if something doesn't directly pertain to the mod you are making, it should probably be left alone.

 

I know I've had problems with this in the past, mods which alter the world space, such as street light mods etc.

[Jeoshua]

It's similar, but more specific. Sometimes an object does have to be removed from the equation, even if one is remaining withing their proper scope. An example would be a house mod which would have a tree growing through the middle if it weren't removed.

[Astymma]

I *just* ran into this... once AGAIN... in yet another mod....sigh.

 

This is one of the most annoying bugs that mod authors introduce into the game because it's hard to track down.

It's why I now open every single mod in FNVEdit before activation and pore over every change. Deleted records,

objects moved 1 unit to the left or right or up or down (GRRR @ that one), added flora or landscaping for no reason

in completely unrelated cells, etc.. Please please please please please listen to the OP hehe ;)

[Jeoshua]

The tiny changes to position are especially infuriating when you consider that 1 unit is about a quarter of an inch, roughly. And many times the changes are just seemingly rounding errors.

 

Sometimes I wonder if people turned on the Havok Simulator in the cell they were working on. Don't do this unless it's your own personally added cell. Please.

[Thogun]

Thanks for this! :thumbsup: I even found a few in my own mod.

 

It's amazing how much can be changed when you're not being careful. Or even when you are.

[PaladinRider]

I'm still learning as I go along - I have a problem though.. Whenever I do this to my mod, it will always crash at the start up. I followed the directions to the letter in the NVEdit manual and in the OP, but no matter what it still happens. Is there something obvious I'm missing?

 

Also, a large part of my mod is based around the Lucky 38 Casino floor. This room often times causes a lot of lag for many users in part due to the additional NPCs I added. I added about 10-15 NPCs, but the floor originally has a TON of objects. There is clutter everywhere, and all the architectural statics also have additional statics overlayed - stuff like cracks in the walls, water damage marks, etc. There are also a lot of slot machines, plus the odd working machine I've added. This all adds up to a lot of stuff the game needs to load in this cell which can slow down dramatically.

 

I would like to remove some of the unnecessary statics and clutter hopefully to improve FPS all the while keeping the casino seemingly busy. Is there a trick to doing this? I've also thought that "initially disabled" doesn't help much as the game engine still has to load the object. is this true?