Qwinn´s Ultimate DAO Fixpack v3 (no longer beta!)

[Qwinn]

There's actually 2 INT_HIGH checks when talking with Flemeth early in the game. One of them is in Morrigan's dialogue file, which occurs when you first meet Flemeth, and an INT_HIGH check is plainly still impossible to make at that point. The other is in Flemeth's own dialogue and occurs after you light the beacon. That one *may* be possible to pass, but almost certainly only for a human rogue who pumps every single point into it.

 

I wish there was a way to search for every attribute check in every dialogue and script in the game, to see what the impact would be of changing the checks to LOW = 15, MED = 20 and HIGH = 25, or something like that. Having low be an automatic pass, medium be *really* easy to pass (any race/class that made it through Broken Circle would easily pass a MED check) and high being something only a very specialized rogue would ever pass seems like pretty terrible implementation. And on this pass through the game I've yet to find any attribute other than cunning checked (the script does theoretically allow for the same values to be checked against all the other attributes, STR, CON, WIL, etc., I just haven't seen any examples of those used).

 

Anyway, for anything Ostagar related, including both Flemeth checks, I'm going to check INT_MED. This is actually probably the only time in the game where a reasonable INT check is possible - as in, early enough that INT_MED isn't virtually guaranteed to pass. INT_HIGH is so silly it might as well just check if the player is a rogue.

 

EDIT: Done.

 

9. (v3.0) In Ostagar there are a number of dialogue options that are impossible to see because it requires passing a HIGH check against Cunning (30 Cunning required), which is impossible in Ostagar for anyone to pass, and only a specialized rogue much later in the game would ever be likely to pass. Changed them to a MED check (requires 15 Cunning) that is possible to pass that early in the game. Dialogues affected: The Elven Messenger, the Tranquil Mage and two conversation options with Flemeth.

Edited March 5, 2017 by Qwinn

[Qwinn]

Update to a version 1.0 fix:

 

1. (v1.0) "The Hungry Prisoner": This quest will no longer close with an erroneous entry if you leave Ostagar having acquired the key by feeding the prisoner but without using it on the chest. The quest will remain open, just as it does if you got the key by killing the prisoner. (v2.0) Note that you have an opportunity to use the key during the Return To Ostagar DLC, but that will not close the quest. I'm going to leave this fix as is for now in hopes of finding an elegant solution to that issue for the next version. (v3.0) Six years later, doesn't look like we'll ever get to fix anything in DLC. So, I've added a new closing entry for the condition that you leave Ostagar with the key.

[aeroldoth]

I've yet to find any attribute other than cunning checked (the script does theoretically allow for the same values to be checked against all the other attributes, STR, CON, WIL, etc., I just haven't seen any examples of those used).

 

IIRC, the mage origins Spirit of Valor will give you the staff with a Will dialogue option.

 

Also, I may have found a bug in Ostagar. It may be intentional or it may come from one of my mods....

 

1) I talked to the Kennel Master (KM) about the dog. Didn't muzzle it.

2) Went into the wilds where Daveth told me there was a flower reward.

3) Finished the wilds and was escorted back to the second Ostagar map.

4) Talked to KM and muzzled the dog and gave him the flower.

5) Said Daveth mentioned a reward and KM said no reward.

6) Quest finished with no reward, xp or coin.

 

Wiki for The Mabari Hound says:

http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/The_Mabari_Hound

 

If you get the quest by locating the flower in the Wilds and ask for the reward Daveth mentioned when presenting it to the Kennel Master, he will tell you Daveth was mistaken and there is no reward available.

If you simply offer the flower you found or got the quest by speaking with the Kennel Master, he will present you with a default reward of 20s and 250 XP. You may pressure him for the maximum reward (50s and 500 XP), and if you say a reward isn't necessary, you receive no money and no XP.

It seems odd that if Daveth tells you of the reward (in a mini-cutscene no less), ...

...the reward isn't always obtainable. The dialogue in this video isn't what I got and I'm guessing it's because I talked to KM on the first map but didn't muzzle, as opposed to not talking to him at all until the second map.

 

No matter how you approach it you should get SOMETHING for the quest. Ideally the option of coin and xp should always be there.

[LadyHonor]

Personally, I believe if you turn down the reward you should get more exp than if you accepted it. your generosity should be rewarded. :P

 

No matter how you approach it you should get SOMETHING for the quest. Ideally the option of coin and xp should always be there.

 

[Qwinn]

"IIRC, the mage origins Spirit of Valor will give you the staff with a Will dialogue option."

You're right! I forgot about that one. It's a WIL_MED check, so elven mages will always pass it (requires 15 willpower, they start with 17) and human mages will pass it if they put 1 point into it (they start with 14).

 

"Also, I may have found a bug in Ostagar."

 

I took a look and I believe you are correct - when you say "Daveth mentioned a reward" and he replies "Your friend must be mistaken", there *is* a response that would lead to reward options but due to the way the flags are set up, it cannot actually appear. I will fix this. Thank you very much for the report.

 

"Personally, I believe if you turn down the reward you should get more exp than if you accepted it. your generosity should be rewarded."

 

I am inclined to agree that there should at least get the same amount of xp reward as you get for the 50 silver reward option. Turning down the cash does not imply you shouldn't get xp - and yes, if anything, it should be more. Let me investigate, there may have been an unimplemented reward somewhere.

 

"The dialogue in this video isn't what I got and I'm guessing it's because I talked to KM on the first map but didn't muzzle, as opposed to not talking to him at all until the second map."

What dialogue did you get then? Is the above line an additional bug report?

Edited March 5, 2017 by Qwinn

[Qwinn]

After some investigation, here's what I've found:

 

The only way you seem to be able to get the possibility of getting the smaller 20 silver 250 xp reward is if you are a human noble. They're also the only ones who can actually say "A reward's not necessary."

 

If you're not a human noble, you can ask for payment (which gets you 50s and 500 xp) or not ask for payment and get nothing at all. The closest you can get to "A reward's not necessary" for them is, when he says "Isn't it worth something to save a valiant hound's life?", you can say "It will have to do I suppose", or "Yes, if he actually survives", both of which get you nothing.

 

The fact that you get no xp unless you ask for cash really doesn't make sense and is inconsistent with how almost all quest rewards are handled, and that does put it in the category of bug to me. I also don't see why accepting 20 silver instead of demanding 50 should cut your xp reward in half. I'd think it would be the other way around.

 

Here's how I'm inclined to implement my fix:

 

If you demand payment, you get 50s, but no xp.

If (human noble only) you accept his initial 20 silver offer, you get 20s and 250 xp - no change there, basically.

If you pass up on a reward, you get 500 xp and no money.

 

Thoughts?

Edited March 5, 2017 by Qwinn

[LadyHonor]

I like it.

[Qwinn]

Done.

 

10 (v3.0) "The Mabari Hound": If you didn't get the quest before getting the flower, and you choose the reply "Daveth mentioned a reward", you were supposed to still get options to request a reward but due to a bug they didn't appear. Now they will.

 

11. (v3.0) "The Mabari Hound": The rewards for this quest were strangely implemented. The more money you demanded, the more xp you received, and if you asked for no reward, you got no xp (or anything else) at all. This is the reverse of how rewards are implemented in the rest of the game. The rewards have been fixed so that the amount of xp you receive is inversely proportional to how much silver you request and receive.

 

Thanks again very very much, for the bug reports and input! Keep 'em coming!

Edited March 5, 2017 by Qwinn

[Qwinn]

12. (v3.0) "The Mabari Hound": Human nobles that only talked to the Kennel Master after getting the flower (completing the quest) and then returned to Ostagar at night would see a "Quest Available" marker on the Kennel Master but could no longer interact with him. The erroneous marker will no longer appear.

 

 

13. (v3.0) "The Mabari Hound": Under certain conditions, leaving Ostagar without completing the quest would fail to set the proper Quest Failed closing entry, leaving the quest stuck open in your journal.

Edited March 5, 2017 by Qwinn

[aeroldoth]

Your welcome Qwinn. I only have one criticism, which is on design principle. I'm opposed to xp being tied to morality. I disagree with PCs getting more xp for a "good" handling of a quest or generous dialog, and less for an "evil" handling of a quest or greedy dialog. Devs shouldn't be manipulating players by using xp to coerce them to not only be good, but be good by the devs' standards. which may strongly conflict with the player's morals.

 

I think xp should be tied to how hard a mission is, that's it. If a quest offers multiple paths to finish, harder paths should offer more xp. For example in VTM Bloodlines, you can charge into a warehouse and kill everyone for X xp, but if you stealth the whole place, you get more. In essence, the more time it takes the PLAYER to finish, the more xp should be given. Whether PCs give everyone rainbows or butcher the place shouldn't affect xp awards.

 

Coin or other tangible rewards would, in my perfect world, be based on your persuasion/ intimidation/ seduction powers. Everyone would offer a pittance for their quests so you can't just pump all your combat skills, you need to raise your social skills too to convince people to give better rewards, the higher your persuasion the higher the reward.

 

I played a game called Eschalon where I focused on my merchant skill. I got it high enough that I could buy/sell things at a profit, taking everything stores offered. I was incredibly weak since I hadn't improved my combat, but I was decked out in top-notch gear... a peasant with epic tools.

 

"What dialogue did you get then? Is the above line an additional bug report?"

 

Slightly different dialog. Do you want me to upload a 15sec fraps video?

Edited March 5, 2017 by aeroldoth