Vvardenfell

[Iceflame542]

Skyrim creation kit video, its getting close to release.

[Iceflame542]

Is this dead already?

[demidekidasu]

Is this dead already?

 

 

I think everyone's waiting for the CK :)

[stabbykitteh]

Has anyone else heard a random Imperial soldier talk about Skyrim being a good staging area to invade Morrowind?

Can't remember the exact quote (of course) and I can't find it anywhere. The thread where it was discussed at the Bethsoft

forum is gone (was the Beta thread - discussing changes in random dialogue post patch). DLC foreshadowing perhaps?

Definitely still interested, just waiting to see what Bethesda is up to...

[cire992]

The problem with this project is that most of the vanilla content can't be used to make Morrowind. So are you saying that you can find enough artists to duplicate the amount of art -in Skyrim quality- that was in Morrowind? That's... preposterous. It would take years just to get enough content to where you could actually start building the landscape. What sets mods like Tamriel Rebuilt and Nehrim apart from other province mods in terms of success is their ability to create an unbroken conveyor belt of world creation. They can do that because they don't make more art than they need to, they draw upon the library of content Bethsoft provided them with (which took a huge team of artists 3 years working full time to produce, just saying). Compared to this massive hurdle, whether or not the land in Morrowind has been generated or not is entirely trivial.

 

Keep in mind that Tamriel Rebuilt has been finishing the province of Morrowind for Morrowind non-stop for 8 years now. They're about halfway done.

Edited February 7, 2012 by cire992

[balmunng]

You know, I would love to see Vvardenfell again, especially in Skyrim, but there seems to be one conflict I have that makes the whole thing questionable:

 

"Didn't the volcano there erupt and cause the land to be uninhabitable?"

[Lachdonin]

That was 180 years before Skyrim. Things don't seem to really be realistic in the TES universe (180 years later the whole area should be flourishing with all the volcanic soil) but we do know that the area survives. At least one character mentiones returning to Mournhold.

[Nexim]

In response to a lot of the prior lore-criticism. I have heard a lot of things listed without any actual citations. Also, a lot of what I have said has been completely skewed off track. When I listed old factions and major players, I wasn't stating that the pre-existing great houses would have greater or similar influence to what they once did. I will address each point made since this thread has begun in kind:

 

House Telvanni has been overrun and was obliterated' date=' according to in-game lore. Argonia only reclaimed southern Morrowind which was stolen by Dunmer in the first place, in which most forces remain. I have heard nothing about Hlaalu holding back Argonia, and mostly the Nords have plundered Redoran territories. And there is nothing left of Redoran, they have been hit the hardest in the Oblivion crisis. Only Vivec has been occupied, as far as i know,and nothing else of the main land, that has been destroyed completely. House Dagoth is dead, with Dagoth Ur's guidance only insane creatures, barely sentient remain.[/quote']

 

Yes, I had accounted for some of these points already. Telvanni and Hlaalu would have been decimated by the Oblivion crisis, but did try to rebuild. I did miss that they were completely wiped out, and only a single heir remains. (Feeling really bad about that business with the ring now...)

 

Redoran was not mentioned as completely destroyed, just decimated. Hlaalu is not mentioned as being anything more than simply diminished. Dres and Indoril are certainly gone --in land. However, holdings do not merely vanish. The South of Morrowind was the primary holding of these two houses, and is pretty much overrun by the argonians. Morrowind's distinct U shape leaves only two places left to be considered habitable, which after the eruption of red mountain, and the following devastation, you have only the west border of Skyrim (Velothis district), and the Telvannis district in the east. From what I gathered with the collapse of the An Xileel during the invasion of southern Morrowind, you'd have everything north of Necrom fairly Argonian-Free.

 

But Morrowinds social structures have decayed. There are no wars between the Great Houses' date=' no prophecy to fullfill. You greatly misjudge the pace of Tamriel, 200 years are small time. Our society went in the last 200 years quite far. You can't say that about TES lore. The cities and societies have changed little in TES over the ages. And do you think the Red Mountain is completely inactive? Remember how the ashlands looked before the erruption? And the blight and Corprus has been spread all over it, since the diseases originated from Red Mountains ashes. The south is controlled by Argonians, and Vardenfell is a scorched, toxic ashland. Why would anybody remain there besides Ashlanders? And of course Ashlanders are not know for rebuilding or even apprechiating "modern" society.[/quote']

 

Morrowind was probably only devastated by the Oblivion Crisis a fraction as badly as Summerset Isle was. Again, Morrowind's political structure did not depend upon central leadership, their peoples were constantly mobilized for war, and their history was one of hardship and strife. The Dunmer were better prepared for invasion than nearly any other province --save the Argonians, who beat back the invasion with pure, unbridled ferocity. Looking back at the stock lore, it seems like Redoran, Hlaalu, and Telvanni were all weakened, but not totally destroyed by the Oblivion crisis. Telvanni even attempted to rebuild Dunmer society to what it was after the eruption of red mountain. Clearly, there was some severe optimism there. I can't think that Morrowind was too badly affected by the explosion at Red Mountain for as long as you think they were.

 

Now, let's look at this lore quote:

 

The ecology of Morrowind has been influenced heavily by two factors -- the high mountain range to the west and the Vvardenfell geologic zone. The mountains have served to isolate the indigenous creatures of Morrowind from the rest of Tamriel, while the pervasive ash-fall from Vvardenfell has served to twist the ecology of Morrowind to those forms of life which can survive in its unique environment. Excavation has shown that, even before the major eruption which created the Vvardenfell we know today, the northern highlands were a region of constant volcanic and geologic activity Morrowind has always lived in the shadow of the ash drifting across it in the prevailing northerlies. Its various flora and fauna not only have adapted to survive the ashfall, they have come to depend on it. This is why, for example, the sand kwoom or long-legged velks are an extreme rarity outside of the province -- only a very wealthy man could afford to import enough kresh-weed to keep one alive outside its native land.

 

Almost all Morrowind's ecology is dependent on the ash-fall, and historians show that periods of eruption from red mountain have gone by with hardly a passing nod from the Dunmer. Vivec has been said to have survived many periods of activity in Red Mountain. Now, I'm willing to submit that this eruption wasn't just a singular event, but a series of terribly powerful geologic events on a scale that hasn't been seen in thousands of years. Sure.

 

However, need I remind you that Vvardenfell was only opened for civilization 14 years prior to the events of TES:III? Things can and do move awfully quick in the Elder Scrolls Universe, and where there is a need, cities can pop up nearly overnight, while others remain the same for long periods of time. This is because the game designers have need of new lore, so they craft it. If they don't need to, they don't update things. You are clinging to lore as though it actually matters except as a vehicle to progress a narrative. You can't look at a system from the inside when designing something. You have to take a stance above and look downward. If our new lore doesn't quite fit, so what? We're not Bethesda. We're not inhabitants of Nirn. Check this out: Dragon break: lore fits now. Anything is possible when you are authoring a mod. We'll make it fit as best we can, but if it isn't fun, we're going to scrap it. Who wants to explore a barren wasteland? Nobody. And from where I sit, with my knowledge of Lore, there is no reason to think that we MUST create a completely barren land. Obviously, it's going to be much worse than it was, but it will be progressed from what you seem to think it is, a crater.

 

Vardenfell has been covered in ashes' date=' ashes which contain blight and corprus. Like the Red Mountain area, but all over. Forget about Vardenfell already. Elven reproduction speed is nowhere near Human reproduction speed, you know nothing about the flora and fauna, how it reatced, how much survived. Just making up some story about how your favourite faction from Morrowind reclaims everything and makes everything good again is not enough. Just forget about your Morrowind fanboyism for a second. Lore is what makes these games awesome in the first place. Stop trying to relive your past so desperately, and create something new. If you recreate something, you MUST abide lore, otherwise it would not be a recreation. I love Morrowind llike the next guy, but if you do it, do it right. Think. Think about what will happen, not what you want to happen.[/quote']

 

I have thought through, in the last month, while poring over lore what would logically have happened. Bethesda did well, and left some interesting areas to explore for the creation of Vvardenfell. Luckily, we won't need a lot of new assets, as very little of the land will be at all reclaimed. Obviously, there were storms as far into the 4th era as 4E122, which coincided with the collapse of Winterhold. Refugees were still streaming from the mainland for some time, and numerous Dunmer were beginning to set up lives outside of Morrowind. It's been 89 years, and I think bands of refugees will be setting up shop in the Isles again, and some bands of strong Dunmer will have attempted to reclaim old cities that barely were touched by the events (Necrom, for instance). It will be a province in decline, yes, but I see no reason for Vvardenfell to be recovering after 89 years of relative calm. The ash is part of Morrowind's ecosystem, and as such, the life will be recovering. There will of course be a shortage of large beasts. The giant Silt Striders will likely have been maintained, Netch and Guar as well, due to their domestication and inherent value. Argonian slaves will have probably taken what they learned on plantations and applied to to bettering their own societies.

 

Make a stand alone "game" playing in the war' date=' maybe even with a set character, thinking "Redguard" (the game), for a Dunmer house and Argonian forces, conquering and avoiding to be conquered, fighting battles, gathering intel. Aquiring resources of helping people escape. Sure, the end and outcome is set and written, but who cares? You partake in something noteworthy and special, you are IN history, reliving it. All still with free exploration, maybe imprial factions go gain allies, for battles, finding artifacts that will help your struggle. Get to know house dres and the argonian forces. Convince skyrim to aid you as argonia, or house indoril as house dres. [/quote']

 

This is not desirable. Rewinding the timeline is something I've thought of, using the Elder scroll, but it would basically require two worlds to be created. I don't want to break the world into two chunks. I want contiguous provinces, with free flow between bordered regions. I appreciate your feedback, but you don't want what I want. As for your fanboy claims, I was mistaken about Telvanni and Redoran's survival, but you don't seem to notice half of what I wrote in my original post. I never implied everything was fine, and I mention that Dres and Indoril are utterly destroyed. Just by mentioning their names, you assume I knew nothing of the argonian invasion, which I did, quite thoroughly describe. I just hadn't read about the Nord/Orc invasion of the west (Redoran territory), and I had mistakenly flipped Redoran and Hlaalu territory. Hlaalu is likely just as devastated as Redoran.

 

I agree in the fact that the Thalmor should not be involved' date=' but you seem to forget that, even devistated, Morrowind has something the Empire loves. Ebony. Lots and lots of Ebony. Particularly with the fact that there is a cold war going on, the Empire would almost certianly be incested in resettlement of Morrowind, simply to get access to the Ebony.[/quote']

 

And my thoughts are this: If the Empire is interested in re-establishment of the ebony contracts, the Thalmor will be there. The Thalmor broke ties with the empire and elsweyr, they tried to isolate them from Hammerfell (This was the actual objective of the Great War), they incited the events that caused the reclamation of southern Morrowind from the Dunmer, before ties between Thalmor and Argonia fell through. Now, the Thalmor, using the empire as a gateway, are attempting to inflitrate and subjugate Skyrim. So, let's tally the Results: Summerset Isle, Thalmor. Valenwood, Thalmor. Elsweyr, Thalmor. Hammerfell, half Thalmor, half independent state. Skyrim, in flux between empire/thalmor, and Nord rule. Cyrodiil, Thalmor/empire controlled. Morrowind, totally f***ed.

 

So, we look at all of this, and see that the Aldmeri Dominion is trying to establish total control of Tamriel, while the Empire tries to regain power, the Thalmor increasingly infiltrate it. Skyrim, Hammerfell, Black Marsh, and Morrowind remain the only free states, and of those, each is involved in internal conflict that is directly linked to the Thalmor.

 

In other words: Any interest the Empire has, the Aldmeri Dominion will be right there alongside, trying to undermine it. The Aldmeri Dominion isn't interested in racial politics first, those come after they have subjugated a nation. The Dunmer would resist Thalmor incursion, but some might be swayed by the inevitable Thalmor empty promise of assistance in rebuilding their kingdom. This, in my opinion is the only logical political stratagem the Thalmor would apply to any hope of rekindled relationships between the Empire and Morrowind.

 

While some aspects of the Empire may not be interested in Morrowind (such as the Legion), small outposts and imperial spies would still be maintained for the sake of information. It is better to spend money you don't have, than to go belly-up because of a dart you couldn't see coming. Arguably, a number of independent imperial organizations would be very interested in Morrowind, now that temple strictures no longer restrict research in Vvardenfell. Clearly, Dwemer ruins have survived eruptions of Red Mountain before, and logically, will continue to. Excavations would continue, and funding for magical research would be allocated to reach sites previously restricted by the Almsivi.

 

As for the Great Houses' date=' with the exception of Telvanni, theres nothing to indicate they are extinct. Even then, we know Telvanni has an heir, though he's not much of a mage. There is some credance to an attempt to rebuild, though anything approaching the full fledged House Councils we saw in Morrowind is certianly right out.[/quote']

 

I agree. There is no reason that the Telvannis region of Morrowind should have been utterly obliterated. Yes, Red Mountain erupted, but in this case, Solstheim was actually closer to it than the Telvanni Islands, or for that matter, the mainland Telvanni seat! We know the argonians didn't reach the mainland north of Necrom, so exactly why did Telvanni die off? Perhaps it didn't actually get outright destroyed, but it fell out of favor publicly, and their land is still somewhat inhabited, though the name Telvanni is relegated to the pages of history due to a change of political direction. As for Hlaalu, Indoril, and Dres, I'm willing to write them off as primary factions of influence. Redoran, I'm willing to accept is probably utterly destroyed. They weren't faring well at the end of the 3rd era anyway, and war with Orcs/Nords could only spell disaster. Even if Telvanni is gone, Morrowind's mainland Telvannis district is likely far from obliterated.

 

If anybody cares' date=' do Solstheim. Holds more promise, and is actually doable[/quote']

 

Read my original post. You clearly didn't. That is the goal of this project, opening with Solstheim, then moving on to mainland Morrowind and Vvardenfell.

 

Raven Rock is probably a major port city now...

 

Raven rock's mine gave out' date=' causing it to be abandoned within a few years of the events of Bloodmoon. This was covered in a book in Oblivion, I think. So, I really doubt the cities on Solstheim are much but run-down refugee cities, people trying to do their best to make it with what they have, and the Nords/Imperials doing their best with aid.

 

I reckon the best story for Solstheim would be told underground. Maybe extending the Falmer into Solstheim, having the player working to sort out the mess at the refugee camps, dealing with corruption, and eventually turning toward unrest between native Nords and the refugee Dunmer. It could get pretty interesting. One thing I'd want to do, though, is tie in the Kwama. perhaps the old ebony mines at Raven Rock were the grounds of an attempt to acclimate the Kwama to the climate in Solstheim. That could be a fun little plot-bridge, and a nod to some of the old critters in Morrowind. After all, Kwama were among the most important staple food sources in Morrowind.

 

As it was being destroyed, it was invaded and occupied by the Argonians - it's now part of "The Argonian state". The Lizards are in charge now. More than likely they killed everything in their way. The war was an opportunity for blind revenge, and they got it. If the Dark Elves if they aren't dead or slaves, they are not in charge and their culture in danger.

 

Read the original post. It has been considered. The Argonian assault only went as far north as the inland sea, meaning about half of mainland Morrowind wasn't taken, and the earlier eruption of Red Mountain made Vvardenfell not worth taking by the Argonians.

 

Keep in mind that Tamriel Rebuilt has been finishing the province of Morrowind for Morrowind non-stop for 8 years now. They're about halfway done.

 

Tamriel rebuilt actually spent more time arguing and chasing away new members than they actually did creating assets. What they have done in 8 years, I think, with a large enough, and inclusive enough team, be done in 2 years. The problem is gaining the interest, and the individuals with the skill. The volume of assets can be streamed out in multiple stages to reduce the time needed. I have a different strategy for creating content, the only thing I need is a few modelers with skill, and we can get the Solstheim project off the ground as a bridge to Vvardenfell and mainland Morrowind, while giving birth to a new subcommunity for Black Marsh.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Nexim

[STAVIUS]

Have you read "The Infernal City" and its sequel "Lord of Souls" by Greg Keyes? These books depict the most accurate description of what has happened to the island of Vvardenfell and the province of Morrowind between Oblivion and Skyrim, and according to the books, Red Mountain has become very active, constantly so after the Ministry of Truth crashed into the island. Most of Vvardenfell would be entirely wasteland, with nothing but lava flows and ash pools.

 

However, I am part of a team working on a fully recreating the Morrowind era version of Vvardenfell here: http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/587614-morrowind-the-legend-of-st-jiub/

[TWarrior]

solstheim and black marsh is currently being worked on!

get in contact witht he authors, they might help you.