General Pathfinding

[xenxander]

Anyone ever notice that NPCs don't jump? It bothers me, because it makes their pathfinding extremely weak.

 

I was being chased by a melee bandit, and with acrobatics at only 12, managed to hop up onto a small rock, which was adjacent to a larger one. Once up there (on top of the larger rock), I watched as the Nord ran all around the rocks, trying his hardest to find a way up to me, then just aimlessly and helplessly slash at the rock, as if that would do him any good.

 

I almost (ALMOST!) felt guilty about peppering him with arrows until he died. Seriously, the AI extremely gimped in pathfinding. Does it bother anyone else? I use it to my advantage all the time but in some ways it almost feels like cheating...

[Storm Raven]

No its not cheating, if the ai is stupid.

 

I've even seen NPC's get stuck inside rocks and walls.

 

Thats really funny, I just walk by and leave them stuck.

 

For Eternity. lol.

 

Now trolls and lions have jumped up on rocks to come after me a few times.

 

It seems to depend on the monster and the location.

 

:P

 

BTW - It never hurts to check recent topics before you post.

 

Funny Oblivion Incidents, Whether related to the AI or yourself

[malonn]

You can download certain mods that adds jumping and dodging features to enemies. Deadly Reflex, for example.

[Vagrant0]

It's really more of a pathfinding issue, there were no path nodes on the top of that rock, so the NPC would just try to attack you by running from the nearest one to where you are, then running from another nearby node to attempt the same. If there were path nodes on that rock, he would eventually pop up on the rock with you. It's really just bad AI, but was probably done because trying to add it (simply having the NPC try jumping when they cannot move forward) would be buggy elsewhere, or would make things work slower.

[xenxander]

the "funny things" thread didn't pertain to this thread. I wanted people's general and serious opinion about pathfinding and the AI involved, and if it annoys or upsets anyone, or they feel it's too buggy, etc.

 

Path nodes probably explains it, and also why they didn't scrip in jumping (though as mentioned, some enemies like lions and trolls, do jump up to you as jumping is part of their attack pattern - like some goblins and skeletons).

 

I just don't find it to be a very laudable aspect of Oblivion in general and feel it should have been addressed a bit more before release.

[bben46]

I have used that 'bug' to take out Umbra at first level. It takes a while, but if you get out on a ledge where she can't reach you, She has no ranged attack. You can keep hitting her with your default low level fireball and waiting for your magica to come back, or use a bunch of arrows, the goblin staff you got in the training dungeon and any other ranged attack you can come up with.

 

A cheap way to get a good sword & armor at low level. Also gives a boost to destruction and marksmanship.

[Aedaghna]

Yeah, I tend to exploit this "bug" whenever I run into a tough enemy. I recently started using FCOM with a new character and am way to impatient to wait on going into the higher level dungeons. I usually end up climbing up on some rubble where they can't get to me, so I can pepper them with fireballs and arrows. (Except for the irritating sylvan archers, I haven't figured out a good way to kill them yet.)

 

On a slightly different note, the Lost Spires mod has a couple "bottomless pits" and the NPCs/Creatures don't even treat it like a normal cliff edge but dive right in! I found this "glitch" highly amusing as I dumped several minotaurs and a land dreugh into the depths. btw, If you haven't tried Lost Spires, it's the best original quest-line/faction mod I've ever played.

 

Hopefully Bethesda will make some improvements to the pathfinding in TES: V

[Storm Raven]

xenxander,

 

no offence meant

none taken.

 

:biggrin:

[xenxander]

None intended I just wanted to stress this wasn't about "using the AI to your advantage", it was about how disatisfied I am with how the AI can't figure out how to jump.

 

Yes I know about that area and the 'bottomless pit'. Pushing enemies off ledges to incur fall damage is always self-gratifying.

 

It seems currently there won't be anyway to resolve the issue. It's strange though, becasue if the AI can't 'get up' to you, then why don't they lob spells at you? Even the most "warrior" type Nord or Orc still has a flare spell (well so it seems, as you always have 'flare' even if you start out as one yourself)

 

this leads to the conclusion that everyone has 'flare'. Of course this doesn't bide very well - game mechanics don't take into account this factor, so always generate NPCs without magic if they are a "melee" type - just one more 'game flaw'.