Are Female Armors Denigrating?

[LadyMilla]

The "complaining about staring" thing AND lumping all feminists in with radfems is what you got wrong.

 

Please fine tune your reading comprehension engine, and also please don't put words in my mouth.

 

I wrote "If you are an ultra-feminist then they may be denigrating for you". "May" = if you are an ultra-feminist there is a chance that you will find them denigrating. It is a sentence that conveys 'probability' and not 'certainty'. Also, I wrote 'ultra-feminist' (shall I highlight the 'ultra-' prefix for you?). Unless you mean that all ordinary feminists are insulted by staring, which is something I doubt, I see no "lumping" here.

[ginnyfizz]

I think that the debate would be greatly helped if people stopped using such broad brushstrokes and making sweeping statements. For example, LadyMilla, I find your comments about people who have their concerns about the Shojo mod, for example, pretty offensive. Not everyone who expresses an opinion that they find something awkward is necessarily a fanatic, just because you do not agree with them.

[grannywils]

Personally, I feel that this thread has gone way off the OP's original intention. However, that being said, I would like to mention a particular armor that I find looks attractive on both the female and the male form. That is, it has pieces for either form. It is found in Oblivion, and is part of a fairly elaborate quest. It is called Obsidian armor and can be found in the "Tales from Elsweyr" mod http://www.tesnexus....le.php?id=27302. You must go around to several places before you find all of the pieces (it also includes weapons). The armor covers all parts, (for those who do not care for the exposed armor). But the female version (not the skirt greaves, but just the regular pants and the skirt boots along with the shorter jacket top) looks very attractive on the female form. Yet she still looks well armored and loaded for bear. The male version also looks quite nice on the male form. It does require that you have some other mods in order to use this one, but it is a pretty neat mod, in and of itself.

[LadyMilla]

I think that the debate would be greatly helped if people stopped using such broad brushstrokes and making sweeping statements. For example, LadyMilla, I find your comments about people who have their concerns about the Shojo mod, for example, pretty offensive. Not everyone who expresses an opinion that they find something awkward is necessarily a fanatic, just because you do not agree with them.

 

You missed my point. My message was: people get offended for things that only exist in their mind, and are far too quick to jump to conclusions concerning the intent of the author. I saw quite a few comments accusing the creator of the Shojo Race, of being a pedophile or promoting pedophilia, while the mod itself is just a child-head mod, designed for the lovers of a certain genre of cartoons representing a distinct artistic style. The mod itself is an anime-style head, without a body mod, it is not even complete, and yet, the self-appointed guardians of good morale immediately started to cry foul.

 

Like most of the things in life, you cannot judge an object / piece of cloth / a body mod in itself, taken out of context. A gun is definitely capable of killing a man, provided that there is somebody who trains the gun at that man, and pulls the trigger. Without the killer, the gun is only an inert object with the potential of killing. The same is true of a child mod or a skimpy cloth mod. You need to know how they are used before you can make a judgment. And this also applies to the issue of "staring". Unless you know the guy's intention, the act of staring at someone cannot be considered as an insult without additional input from the person.

[hector530]

Why are we focusing on females solely? There are plenty of mods which degrades men as well.

 

Yes but men really don't care.

[areppon]

Oooooookaaaaaaaaay. I thought there was a big difference ebtween saying "This isn't my style, I prefer a more practical look for my adventurers" and "Oh teh noes, sex is teh ebbilz, yay blood and gore!"

 

I must point out though: some of the countries most well-known for having a lot of sexual liberty also produce some of the nastiest, most horrifying extreme horror imaginable (France (Martyrs, Frontier(s), Inside, Irreversible) and Germany (Nekromantik, oh dear gods, Nekromantik- and that one about the real life german canibal, a few others as well-I'm looking at you.) So I wonder how this goes together then? If you have coherent rational way to express your feelings, I'd love to hear it.

 

\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/\/

 

 

I missed something. You're looking at me for what now? You (admittedly) failed to comprehend a single word of what I wrote. Chances are you read all the big red words and chose not to read anything else that had been written, which you have exemplified by your reference to France and Germany, illustrating (rather beautifully I might add) one point I had made about the silliness (in my opinion of course, you're not required to agree) of shunning the beauty of God's creation and yet reveling in exploiting it's destruction. Indeed, those countries also make some of the most 美しい⁽¹⁾ porn in the world. They simply understand that there is no need to be embarrassed about neither sex nor death, for they are both God's beautiful creation. However, in responding the way you have, you precisely presented yourself as an epitome of another point I had made by displaying yourself as one of those people who blindly judges others based on assumptions (hence the insipid drivel you puked out), instead of making clear decisions and statements based on correct information.⁽²⁾

 

While I don't understand what

"Oh teh noes, sex is teh ebbilz, yay blood and gore!"⁽²⁾

means (I only speak English and Japanese), that is your illogical comparison, not mine. If you go back and re-read what I had written (including the words in between the big red ones), you will realize what I wrote was there's a big difference in saying "this isn't my style", and the condemning and belittling of the people who do like it. The latter of which being the issue I had commented on. It's perfectly OK for you to not want that in your copy of the game, but it's wrong to condemn and belittle other people for liking it just because you don't.

 

To be clear, my comment was on the sadness of the desire and pleasure you people enjoy in forcing your opinions and ways on other people, then condemning and destroying those that reject it. Vegetarians that go to Mac Donald's and demand a Big Mac without meat, then moving through the restaurant calling everyone in there a flesh-eating demon is a prime example. I don't know about other countries, but that happens all the time in mine and I despise that tendency.

 

So my point is that if you don't like it, don't download it, and certainly don't attack those that do. It's a choice, not a mandate. Are you also in disagreement then that it is monstrously disrespectful to attack the woman who spent hours (probably days, possibly weeks) creating a body replacement mod for these games for us to enjoy by calling her "a sick, vile and disgusting perverted MAN that gets HIS sexual jollies of by making a naked woman mod" simply because her bodies are unclothed? Mind you that's the nicest of the derisive and hateful attacks I've seen flung at her.

 

So what if you don't want nude models in your game. That's your prerogative. Don't install them. There is zero need, logic nor right for you to have the gall to go into her (and/or other creators' of nude bodies/sexy armor/sex animation) pages as if your excrement don't stink and blast her for making it, condemn those that use it, then have the audacity to request that she negate and redo her mod just to satisfy your arrogant sadistic desire to control what she like to do or wants to create. Especially when there are already plenty of other non-nude body mods out there of equally excellent quality. If those don't suit your taste, do what the rest of us with coherent rationality do, make your own, and if you feel so inclined upload it so we can enjoy your creation(s) as well. Is that coherent enough for you?

 

 

⁽¹⁾ Google Translate is your friend. Unlike your "teh noes, sex is teh ebbilz", It will understand it. I chose that word for nuance (it fits the feeling I wish to express more precisely). I apologize for not being able to convey it properly in English.

 

⁽²⁾ Next time you state an argument, please actually negate what you are arguing against. It makes for a much more interesting and intelligent conversation, and when you give comparisons make sure they are logical.

 

⁽³⁾ Speaking of intelligible coherence, next time please re-read what you write and use your spell checker (right-click on words that have red lines underneath them... that means they're misspelled) before you post. I live in a building with people from almost every country and neither them nor Google (and several other bots I tried) was able to recognize "teh noes, sex is teh ebbilz" (save the word sex), and the machines weren't even able to identify what language it was... probably because it was so grossly misspelled.

 

Why are we focusing on females solely? There are plenty of mods which degrades men as well.

 

Yes but men really don't care.

Don't be so sure. Your very statement is degrading against men.

Edited December 23, 2011 by areppon

[BlackBaron2]

Actually, the female-specific mods are playing into the Myth of Universal Male Ugliness, that's part of why I find them to be so snoozeworthy. ;)

[Aurielius]

@areppon

Actually large red type face in Internet speak denotes anger, whether or not that was your intent I will not hazard a guess, but most people would make that interpretation. All that aside you are losing sight of the original premise which could be precisely done by stating your opinion in a clear straightforward manner. The usual result of semi angry retorts and counter retorts is yellow ink and thread lock ( I know because I have been as guilty as any of doing the same). I am not aware of any of the posters making the assertion that their view was the only correct one, since in the long run it's subjective interpretation of a visual medium and there is really no wrong way to be subjective since it's how one perceives something.

[elvinkun]

 

Well if that's your idea of a joke:

 

Then maybe you should consider using smileys.

 

For the record there is absolutely no "hate" in what I've posted but I do dislike disparaging comments that are thrown around in an offhand manner because someone happens to be disagreeing. Insulting someone's intelligence is never conducive to a healthy and thought provoking discussion. On that note I will concur that this particular exchange is indeed pointless.

Oh, here I though you meant the one about the mirror. Since that actually was directed at someone -here-.

I'm not really sure you know whom I was talking about, if you did, you prolly wouldn't argue with me about it. Not to mention I haven't said I disagree with her, therefore she's stupid, I said she's stupid. There is a difference, it's not about opinions. In case you are talking about you, well, you're not stupid, just a bit rude. And I'm returning that favor. And franky, the fact you seem to read only parts of posts adds to that.

 

Either way, I say it's still truth. Can you point me to one "normal" (and you know what I mean, don't start with semantics about -what is considered normal-) "male feminist activist" or whatever you want to call it? I still say man saying he knows what women (ALL of them too) want and better than women (and vice versa for that matter) is a hypocryte and possibly stupid, or deluded (or religious zealot, but let's not go there), to make it sound better.

 

And to the provocation... When you run into a post you may not like or agree with and rush in with very defensive and kida rude attitude, you are not asking for or rather want polite, nice answer. If you wanted polite and nice answer, you would initiate the dialogue in such matter, no? That goes both ways, of course. That's the long version. Short is "leave your hate behind the doors if you don't want to bounce it back". Let's leave the attitude behind tho,, it's interesting debate if we cut that one out. Hmm?

Edited December 24, 2011 by elvinkun

[Aurielius]

For some reason the poll would not allow you to pick only one response....it now allows multiple responses , please though stick to a single vote. Meaning it's fixed now and votes are possible, my apologies for the inconvenience if any. Edited December 24, 2011 by Aurielius