mgordon Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Well then, allow me to date myself a bit further. I played Leisure Suit Larry 1 on my brand new 8088 with a full 128k of ram., off of a floppy because I didn't have a hard drive. State of the art, with a nice looking green screen. I bought every new release of LSL that came out. I also played Sierra's Police Quest, Conquests Of Camelot, and a whole slew of other games from the olden days. I was a hardcore gamer. Games were plentiful, and good. You can't compare anymore. You can't say a game from 1990 sucks, if all you lived with is these modern hardware models. I remember conquering Camelot in about 5 hours one afternoon. I just couldn't stop until I was finished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manmanman Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 "You can't say a game from 1990 sucks"Leisure suit larry sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeonthraen Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 i'll be honest that even for its faults (bugs, the annoying dragonpriest mask with arch mage robe and the guy at the enchant altar in Dragonsreach WHO WILL NOT SHUT UP! :down: ) Skyrim is still superior to Oblivion for one common fact; its plot is a lot more well done. I didn't like Oblivion because the main storyline just didn't pair up to Morrowinds, which was epic. to say nothing of playability; you get kind of sick to death of having a high agility (even using the console to boost agility to 225) and still getting knocked around by power attacks and bows. Skyrim doesn't have that thank god save the occasional Draugr Deathlord but at least he's not doing it every 10 seconds and its just a chance to knock you down. say what you will that, "oh that was immersion"...um no it wasn't; IT WAS ANNOYING. to say nothing that a majority of the quests and characters were so static they hardly left an impression save the Thieves Guild questline. Now I'm not saying Skyrim is perfect, of course its not, but at least its a step in the right direction. Oblivion felt more like eye candy not a real work; it was okay but not great. now i've tried to get into those other RPGs, im still a huge fan of Fallout 3 but not New Vegas which is strange but thats how I am. Dragon Age...some reason I just couldn't get into that game, maybe because imho it felt to constrictive; you were being channeled toward a linear plot not open ended. The base argument is of course is Skyrims open ended gameplay which is an exact mirror image of Morrowind; you're not being channeled, driven or forced toward end game like other generic RPGs but rather set to your own standards and exploring. I think its the reason why Final Fantasy 10 killed my interest in the Final Fantasy series all together; while good it felt constricting and didn't have the exploratory experience FF7,FF8 and FF9 had. you can say the jump between zones instead of flying on your own saved time but imho broke the core dynamic in an FF world; exploration is the key to a great RPG and open ended content gave massive amounts of quality to what is usually a linear form of gameplay. I think thats why most MMORPG are so prevalent and popular like WoW, Lineage 2, Guild Wars and so on; you're not being forced down a linear path but rather hinted at it and sent on your way to make your own plot. to be in charge of your own destiny is a great system of RPG mechanics :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abaris Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 The base argument is of course is Skyrims open ended gameplay which is an exact mirror image of Morrowind; you're not being channeled, driven or forced toward end game like other generic RPGs but rather set to your own standards and exploring. That could be its biggest strength but also it's biggest weakness. Depends on where you are standing. Given that you didn't like New Vegas I can imagine that we have a case of different tastes here. I liked New Vegas because of the free exploring, but also because the main quest led to a great finale. Take all the time exploring, but if you walk down that final path, it's going to be the end. That way, you got a sense of achievement when you beat the main quest one way or the other. In Morrowind as well as Oblivion as well as in Skyrim, I canned my character after the main quest. Why would the Nerevarine, the hero of Skyrodil or the Dragon Born submit themselves to some lowly guild quest or crawl into the nearest cave? It just feels empty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aeonthraen Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 The base argument is of course is Skyrims open ended gameplay which is an exact mirror image of Morrowind; you're not being channeled, driven or forced toward end game like other generic RPGs but rather set to your own standards and exploring. That could be its biggest strength but also it's biggest weakness. Depends on where you are standing. Given that you didn't like New Vegas I can imagine that we have a case of different tastes here. I liked New Vegas because of the free exploring, but also because the main quest led to a great finale. Take all the time exploring, but if you walk down that final path, it's going to be the end. That way, you got a sense of achievement when you beat the main quest one way or the other. In Morrowind as well as Oblivion as well as in Skyrim, I canned my character after the main quest. Why would the Nerevarine, the hero of Skyrodil or the Dragon Born submit themselves to some lowly guild quest or crawl into the nearest cave? It just feels empty. Very true which makes nervous about the DLCs to Skyrim in the future. I think thats why I find myself wanting to play Fallout 3 again...without the Broken Steel DLC. yes it killed the open ended gameplay but it gave what Skyrim, Morrowind and Oblivion lacked; actual endgame. its true your avatar dies but that leaves open to interpretation; maybe he/she survived and who knows where it went from there. its one of the reasons I think they really shouldn't have made sequels to Final Fantasy 7; leave the plot open to peoples imaginations, get them thinking about what happens afterwards and leave that sense commonality. At the end of Fallout 3, before the Broken Steel DLC, I found myself wondering aimlessly on what happend to the Lone Wanderer. Did he really die? Did his story have a broader meaning or did he and his name pass into legend in the Fallout universe. Broken Steel kind of ruined that because now there is no mystery and the legend was made into a subplot. Dissapointing really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebideedee Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 For me Skyrim came out at the right time. Dead Island makes my cpu (or gfx) fan go HMMMMMMM and with Battlefield 3 I need to inject coffee into my bloodstream everytime I play. So Skyrim is my current rpg fix that I can play/chill out with. When I seen the screenshots at first I thought, pathetic thats just Oblivion. But now when it's running (+ a few mods) it looks really good, not as good as BF3's gfx imho but BF3 doesn't have continent sized maps to play on :tongue: Why would the Nerevarine, the hero of Skyrodil or the Dragon Born submit themselves to some lowly guild quest or crawl into the nearest cave? YOU are that character, if you don't want to go into a cave, don't. If you want to sit on a throne all day looking down your nose at everyone, gl with that, then you'd no doubt complain the game was boring! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abaris Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) YOU are that character, if you don't want to go into a cave, don't. If you want to sit on a throne all day looking down your nose at everyone, gl with that, then you'd no doubt complain the game was boring! You completely miss the point. The point is open world vs open ended. Open world is a great concept, but open ended lets you miss out on a sense of achievement and a great finale. As it is, nothing you do in Skyrim or any of its predecessors, has any impact on the world you are supposed to save. But that's obviously the difference in opinion between action and RPG players. Action players obviously don't mind that there's nothing really happening and you're just the delivery boy or gal from start to finish. But from the RPG point of view, you crave for some kind of achievement and not being treated like the new stable hand by everyone you meet. I mentioned Fallout New Vegas because that game managed to marry both approaches. You could explore to your liking, but everything you did had meaning. The NPC population gave your fame or infamy credit and if you got bored, you could head off to the grand finale. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the fact, that you mentioned Battlefield lets me assume, you are indeed more into action than roleplaying. Edited December 30, 2011 by abaris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebideedee Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) Correct me if I'm wrong, but the fact, that you mentioned Battlefield lets me assume, you are indeed more into action than roleplaying. Both, depends what I'm in the mood for*. But I don't think Skyrim is a world, isn't it part of the same world that Morrowind and Oblivion are on, your impact on the 'world' would involve those places. *Played Guild Wars religiously for 3 years :D Edited December 30, 2011 by Zebideedee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abaris Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Both, depends what I'm in the mood for. But I don't think Skyrim is a world, isn't it part of the same world that Morrowind and Oblivion are on, your impact on the 'world' would involve those places. But that doesn't exclude you being treated with respect when doing a particular group a favor or the NPCs taking note of your achievements. For me, it simply breaks immersion when I leave the hall of Whiterun just after being made Thane and the first wayward guard says "hands to yourself sneak thief". Once again, it's probably down to tastes, but the way that it is right now, I feel completely detached from the world, since the world doesn't react to my presence. Of course there's fun to be had, but its not in the roleplaying department, it's in the exploring and hacking and slahing department. Which is what I mostly do, avoiding the unrewarding questlines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebideedee Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 For me, it simply breaks immersion when I leave the hall of Whiterun just after being made Thane and the first wayward guard says "hands to yourself sneak thief". Haha, they always tell me to stop shouting. Maybe it's a good thing though, lets face it if the Queen or President of the US started doing bank jobs, would people just go "Ahh, they're the Queen/President!" and shrug it off? Slight, very slight overexaggeration there :tongue: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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