The Rights of Native Americans and First Nations

[hoots7]

Even though people prefer to be around others with similar interest, take us for example, we like the Elder Scrolls games, that's why we're here doesn't mean we dislike other people.

 

After reading the post including the response to my own let me say this.

I don't have an once of racism in me, I have worked with many different types of people, Native Americans included.

 

Once I worked at a place & got transferred to another station & these 2 black guys tested me to see if I was racist. They really put this white boy through the ringer, I was mad at them & was ready to fight one of them (I couldn't fight the other guy because he was a preacher) not because the were black but because I was ticked. They finally let me know what was going on & we all had a big laugh, I've even gone to the preacher's church, they are good folks.

 

I don't believe in Affirmative Action either & think it is a slap in the face to the one it is purposed for.

I talked to one of my fellow black track members in high school once.

Asked him what if me & you were going to race in a track meet & we got on the line, then coach grabbed your hand & led you up in front a little, how would you feel? He said he could already beat me (which he defiantly could, he was fast), he didn't need any head start. Then I shared with him that's what Affirmative Action does to a person, it makes you look week, taking it is admitting you are.

 

It's different in my eyes with American Indians, driving them off the land & like someone said we also broke one treaty after another with them; we should honor our word or at least provide compensation.

Not racism to me it's just the right thing to do.

[ResidentWeevil2077]

It's different in my eyes with American Indians, driving them off the land & like someone said we also broke one treaty after another with them; we should honor our word or at least provide compensation.

Not racism to me it's just the right thing to do.

I agree hoots, and while I am (very) grateful that this view is slowly being shared by many more non-Natives than ever before, many are still unable (or unwilling at times) to come to terms that our Native peoples were here first. I'm not saying that all non-Natives be asked to leave immediately because you have to (which BTW actually wouldn't be such a good idea, as that's like "taking one step forward and ten steps back"), all I'm saying is everyone needs to have an understanding of one another.

 

Take Adam Beach for example - he's a wonderful and very talented Native actor from Manitoba (Canada), and anyone who has watched Law & Order SVU will have seen that I'm right. Native American people are in fact beginning to be integrated into modern society, but we still have a long way to go...

[hoots7]

It's different in my eyes with American Indians, driving them off the land & like someone said we also broke one treaty after another with them; we should honor our word or at least provide compensation.

Not racism to me it's just the right thing to do.

I agree hoots, and while I am (very) grateful that this view is slowly being shared by many more non-Natives than ever before, many are still unable (or unwilling at times) to come to terms that our Native peoples were here first. I'm not saying that all non-Natives be asked to leave immediately because you have to (which BTW actually wouldn't be such a good idea, as that's like "taking one step forward and ten steps back"), all I'm saying is everyone needs to have an understanding of one another.

 

Take Adam Beach for example - he's a wonderful and very talented Native actor from Manitoba (Canada), and anyone who has watched Law & Order SVU will have seen that I'm right. Native American people are in fact beginning to be integrated into modern society, but we still have a long way to go...

"Adam Beach", he's good, he was in the movie Wind Talkers & Flags of Our Fathers (Ira Hayes), I liked them both.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0063440/

[ResidentWeevil2077]

"Adam Beach", he's good, he was the movie Wind Talkers & Flags of Our Fathers (Ira Hayes), I liked them both.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0063440/

I've got both on DVD, and in fact I like WWII films in particular. But that's off topic... moving right along.

[ninja_lord666]

@ rob: Yes, the natives have lost almost all their heritage, but maybe (I'm sorry if this sounds offensive; it's not meant to be) maybe, it's time to move on? Just look elsewhere, Italy for example. They're changed their culture several times over the course of history. Things change. Maybe it's time the natives move on and join, and add to, American culture. In fact, there's another example. America is the 'daughter' of England, yet, now, the two countries are different in many ways. America has her own culture now. It'll, of course, be a lengthy procedure, but I think the natives should move on. I'm not suggesting they forget their past; I'm suggesting they stop holding onto it so tightly and just let it be.

Again, I'm sorry if this offends you in any way; race is potentially the hottest topic.

[ResidentWeevil2077]

@ rob: Yes, the natives have lost almost all their heritage, but maybe (I'm sorry if this sounds offensive; it's not meant to be) maybe, it's time to move on? Just look elsewhere, Italy for example. They're changed their culture several times over the course of history. Things change. Maybe it's time the natives move on and join, and add to, American culture. In fact, there's another example. America is the 'daughter' of England, yet, now, the two countries are different in many ways. America has her own culture now. It'll, of course, be a lengthy procedure, but I think the natives should move on. I'm not suggesting they forget their past; I'm suggesting they stop holding onto it so tightly and just let it be.

Again, I'm sorry if this offends you in any way; race is potentially the hottest topic.

I'm not at all offended - like I said, I appreciate what you have to say. But you're still not seeing that it just isn't that simple. We simply cannot, like I pointed out before, "forgive and forget". But don't worry - I wouldn't expect you to understand the ramifications of our situation.

[ninja_lord666]

But you're still not seeing that it just isn't that simple...But don't worry - I wouldn't expect you to understand the ramifications of our situation.

I know, I sicken me, too. I'm too naïve. I'm thinking too far into the future and ignoring the small steps that need to be taken in between.

[ResidentWeevil2077]

But you're still not seeing that it just isn't that simple...But don't worry - I wouldn't expect you to understand the ramifications of our situation.

I know, I sicken me, too. I'm too naïve. I'm thinking too far into the future and ignoring the small steps that need to be taken in between.

Don't feel bad Ninja - at least I'm a very understanding person, and can set aside my differences without being a biased a$$hole of a jerk and say all the nasty things one would expect to hear from someone of Native descent. In my eyes, carrying on like that only aims to create more division amongst people, and that is always a very bad thing. I only wish my own people were as understanding as I am...

 

EDIT: In fact I shall give kudos since you understand me and my position on this issue ;)

 

EDIT #2: ...Huh, hrmm.... :huh: ...But it seems as though I've already given you kudos... :wacko:

[Jhaerlyn]

Ninja Lord brings up one of my bones of contention: How we teach History is Wrong.

 

The History of white interaction with Native peoples here in the US, particularly ... has been that we tried to "civilize" them and make the "productive" but they refused to change with the times.

 

Pardon me, but that's bull-puckie.

 

For Example, the image is repeated over and over, of natives not developing the land, by farming it and establishing homesteads, etc, in the North East. That these people were simply hunter gatherers and didn't want to give up their hunting lands.

 

... if that's true, how did they teach the pilgrims how to plant corn and keep farms in the area?

 

... i'm going to have to spend sometime and re-look up my sources to give exact examples ... to use to illustrate.

 

 

I've heard people talk about Natives not understanding western contracts and land ownership .... and that's actually true, but not in the way most people mean. Native American's had the funny idea that contracts and property ownership were "sacred" and should never be broken... they also thought that they had equal responsibility and value as their european counterparts. But they did understand land ownership. Even in Europe, at the time, you could own farmland, but that land was open to hunting ... anyone could hunt your lands, as long as they didn't not kill your animals or destroy your crops. ( I'll have to look up where I learned this too ... a lot of it comes from Lies my Teacher Told Me a pretty good book. worth reading.

 

 

As for African Americans in this country.... people forget that for many of them, they are only 3 generations down from Slaves, AND its only been a Generation, more or less, since the Government has stopped practicing OVERT racism. But if you take some time to read about some of their history in this country .... being made free from slavery, but not allowed to do the jobs they were skilled at to keep them from competing with whites, not being allowed to own homes in certain neighborhoods, AND not being able to address a court on equal footing with a white man ... through out MOST of the country, for YEARS ... especially between 1900-1950 .... that's ALONG time .... Think about that .... a black man born in, say 1910, would have probably been born on a share-croppers farm, of Parents who were born in slavery only in their early childhood set free ... were seeing life be VERY hard as they were basically in so much debt to the land holder that they were practically his slaves ... by age 15, has probably seen several men Lynched for things EVERYONE knows they didin't do ... decides, maybe, to escape the south and goes north, to Chicago,... and finds he can't get a job for anything other than hard labor at the trainyards ... tries to find a decent place to live, but finds that even the decent places for poor people are white only. Not officially, but very evidently .... from the ugly looks of neighbors to the threats and dead black rats on door steps ...

 

these things were typical ... What is that man going to teach his children when he has some, as they grow up in the 30's n 40's .... ? and those who were born in the 40's ... they got fed up and joined MLKjr and others in trying to get the Gov't to change its racist policies ... which if finally did, no real thanks to anyone in power. They faced some really terrrible things from people in authority who were supposedly there to protect and serve them ... What did they teach their children in the sixties? what did those children see that was really different in the 70's and 80's ? It's hard for a people to let go a a stigma of being the target of racism ...when you see so much of it still around.

 

 

IF African Americans in this country are a load of trouble to the people around them ... I can only say they are a product of the society that nurtured them.

 

I'm convinced that their culture has slowly been evolving into the stereotypes that whites have constantly proported about them for the past two centuries.

 

Blacks from outside the US see it ... I've had a bunch of friends through out my life that are from the Carribean who really hate being mistaken for a Black person from the US.... we've done something to our people, white, black, brown, red and yellow :)

 

anyway ... lunch breaks over ... I'll talk to you guys later .... did I make any sense? :(

 

 

 

 

mm... well... in summary ... this isn't something you can just 'move' on with ... someone mentioned that America was a Daughter of England ... and that could be true ... so lets use that metaphor ...

 

IF you have an adopted child in a home, who is subsequently sexually, physically and mentally abused by the father .... when the father dies and a step-dad comes in ... do you just tell her to, Forget about it ...get over the issues and come join the family?

[ResidentWeevil2077]

I appreciate your input Jhaerlyn - in fact, you may know more about this than me :wacko: But I agree that things need to change, not just on the non-Native side, but on both sides. We need to find a balance between learning the ways of the world, as well as maintaining our heritage and traditions. It won't be an easy process, nor will it be short. I can understand your analogy (kudos to you for putting it in that sense, because that's pretty much how things went down for us... :unsure: ), and I do hope this can shed some light on the issues surrounding Native peoples.

 

EDIT: Just so you know, I have given you kudos Jhaerlyn ;)