What Makes an RPG?

[Abramul]

What, in your opinion, are the most important aspects of a role-playing game?

(Also, if you feel like addressing it) Are current games designated as RPGs really such?

 

 

------

 

Some attributes I consider important are:

 

-Rewarding players who use their character's attributes, skills, and personality to solve problems, rather than those who are simply skilled at shooting trouble.

-Giving logical approaches to problems logical results.

-Basing success off character skills, rather than the player's effectiveness at using the interface.

[ninja_lord666]

What type of rpg are you talking about? Tabletop? Computer? Console? Tactical? mmorpg? There are five types.

Tabletop rpgs focus on story line and character development with a very open ended nature. They typically have level-based systems with an inclination towards experience points.

Computer rpgs are traditionally based off of trpgs, especially D&D. While obviously not as open ended, they try to be as open ended as possible. crpgs tend to focus on quests, main quests and side quests. They also usually have a leveling system with experience points earned from quests and kills.

Console rpgs (also called Japanese rpgs as most are from there) have linear story lines and focus on inter character development. They almost alwyas have turn-based combat.

Tactical rpgs (also called strategy rpgs) are a combination of strategy games and rpg games. They often have the most basic of rpg elements, usually just skills/stats. Most have turn-based combat, but there are some with real-time combat.

mmorpgs have boring unintuitive combat, quests usually involving killing x amount of y for npc z, or going to place a to retrieve item b for npc z, and constant running back and forth.

 

In short, the main things all rpgs have is some sort of stat system, levels, and scripted quests.

[Viblo]

  Abramul said:

What, in your opinion, are the most important aspects of a role-playing game?

(Also, if you feel like addressing it) Are current games designated as RPGs really such?

 

 

------

 

Some attributes I consider important are:

 

-Rewarding players who use their character's attributes, skills, and personality to solve problems, rather than those who are simply skilled at shooting trouble.

-Giving logical approaches to problems logical results.

-Basing success off character skills, rather than the player's effectiveness at using the interface.

 

 

I find this quite interesting subject.

 

To me roleplaying is when you can actually affect the enviroment, when the player can actually feel he can make any difference to the world, that is, his freedom of choices that will change how the game will develop. Roleplaying doesn't have to have 'experience', 'levels', 'swords'n magic' or to be medievalish. "Roleplaying game" as the original term comes from, the pen and paper boardgame, for example doesn't always have experience or levels for that matter and certainly not always happen in the medieval nor have swords.

 

Diablo for example is a title that was about as "roleplaying" as Monkey Island or Pacman in my honest opinion. You may have some "choices"; you can choose this room or that room to hack'n slash into a pulp but that is as deep as choosing which way to eat dots in pacman. Diablo had this typical "kill'n go next lvl" as the old arcade featured.

[ninja_lord666]

  Viblo said:

I find this quite interesting subject.

 

To me roleplaying is when you can actually affect the enviroment, when the player can actually feel he can make any difference to the world, that is, his freedom of choices that will change how the game will develop. Roleplaying doesn't have to have 'experience', 'levels', 'swords'n magic' or to be medievalish. "Roleplaying game" as the original term comes from, the pen and paper boardgame, for example doesn't always have experience or levels for that matter and certainly not always happen in the medieval nor have swords.

 

Diablo for example is a title that was about as "roleplaying" as Monkey Island or Pacman in my honest opinion. You may have some "choices"; you can choose this room or that room to hack'n slash into a pulp but that is as deep as choosing which way to eat dots in pacman. Diablo had this typical "kill'n go next lvl" as the old arcade featured.

You falter. Your post is self-contradictory.

  Quote

To me roleplaying is when you can actually affect the enviroment...

In most all games, you change things. In Resident Evil 0-3, you eradicate the T-Virus and destroy Raccoon City. That's a big change. With such a broad definition, almost anything can be considered an rpg. rpg gaes are identified by gameplay style, levels, etc.

[Viblo]

You should understand that this is not a discussion what the dictionary definition what "RPG" is defined but what *you* find what makes an RPG a RPG. (I assume we're talking about CRPGs like Morrowind/Baldur's Gate/'Planescape torment' because RPG is the pen and paper version)

I support my definition with the argument that the original features from the old pen and paper roleplaying. This wouldn't be even a debate if we would just follow the dictionary/wiki definition of the word RPG.

Note also that I said "To me[...]"

 

I am though not sure if you were trying to not understand my point as simple as it was but what I meant was; if the player can *FEEL* he can change something, that he actually has a *CHOICE* how the game will develop. I haven't played Resident Evil but if you have a choice how the game will develop like you can decide if you walk away or destroy that city(and the world will react according what you choose) then that's a good roleplaying feature in my opinion. I am *not* saying --to eliminate misunderstanding-- that games that have something that change the world is a roleplaying game, all games have that feature, I am saying that you have to have a choice(and the game will develop differently if you do it, or if you don't do it)... I don't know if you've ever roleplayed but it's similar; you shape your own world, you can take your own actions, you're not bound to follow a linear development/story. Many games do have choice but no matter what you choose the same thing happens and it makes you feel like you can't change anything.

 

I don't see anything contradictory in my post. Feel free to support your statement with examples from my post.

[Povuholo]

  Quote

You should understand that this is not a discussion what the dictionary definition what "RPG" is defined but what *you* find what makes an RPG a RPG.

I think you need to be able to state what an RPG is before you can say what it needs. There are many types of RPG's, and there are RPG's that are said to be the same genre, but are still totally different games. Take Baldur's Gate and Oblivion for example. Both are called cRPG's, but both are totally different.

 

I think that (Baldur's Gate like) RPG's should have choices and consequences (Big changes in the world can be cool, but if there's no alternative to this change it isn't as fun), characters have to 'grow' in time, through improved levels and/or skills preferably. There shouldn't be a lame levelling system like in Oblivion, which completely defeats the purpose of becoming stronger. Also player skill should play a small role compared to character skill.

 

Roleplaying isn't 'riding a horse and killing stuff', as Todd Howard once said, which is now the nr 1 dev quote when people are bashing Oblivion's 'RPGness'.

[LordNyghthawk]

To me, an RPG is a game where you make a character, and you can use your imagination to "see" or "feel" what the character's situations are. Levels or no levels is irrelevant. AD&D, Rifts, etc have character levels. Shadowrun doesn't. Twilight 2000/Mercs 2000/Dark Conspiracy do not have character levels, but do have skill levels. All are RPG's. Now what I have seen of people's definitions of CRPG's is a lot looser than mine. For ex> Diablo to me, was NOT an RPG. You didn't "roll" up a character, you only had extremely limited choices for a class, etc etc. Baldur's Gate I/II & Icewind Dale I/II (as well as Planescape Torment), were, because through dialog, you could make choices that would affect how you were perceived ingame, or otherwise impacted the environment. There was still some imagination required to think what you wanted to do. Same with Neverwinter Nights I & II. Elder Scrolls Daggerfall/Morrowind/Oblivion (can't say about the others, never played them) are also in the same category, despite the fact that the interface is through a 1st or 3rd person chase camera. You still have dialog, you still have choices that will impact more than just combat.

 

As you can tell, I am a big fan of being able to use my imagination, so I can have fun "seeing" the storyline unfold in a direction I am able to impact, not just be an actor in a train ride forcing me to do what the game wants. (*Whether computer OR tabletop*)

[sarac]

Which elements are important? ...Mass of characters,enemies,items,awesome magics,epic environment and most important AWESOME Story! ...that are elements which make RPG game perfect,well for me at least...

[Viblo]

  Povuholo said:

  Quote

You should understand that this is not a discussion what the dictionary definition what "RPG" is defined but what *you* find what makes an RPG a RPG.

I think you need to be able to state what an RPG is before you can say what it needs. [...]

 

I understand what you mean, but we all have a kind-of the same idea what CRPG(computer role-playing game) is when people talk about CRPGs just like people kinda-of know what 'art' is even though you don't agree on the complete definition. Then again, just like art, we often have very different kind of idea what the definition is. The definition of CRPG on wiki is also very blur though it states that

  Wikipedia said:

CRPGs are originally derived from traditional role-playing games, especially Dungeons & Dragons, and use both the settings and game mechanics found in such games. [...]

 

What we are doing here is discussing this, some people think that [insert game here] is a CRPG because [insert argument here]. Like you say there are many different CRPGs and everyone don't agree who actually fall into that category. For example some people think Diablo is an CRPG while I don't think it is and I support my statement with arguments on that matter, it's that simple :rolleyes: .

 

Also I don't think Baldur's Gate and Oblivion ain't that different in concept. It's both aimed for making the player feel he has freedom and his decisions can affect the game world. While Diablo you just go down a level and there's nothing you can do throughout the game that will change how the game will develop, not much unlike mario bros.

 

---

 

LorodNyghthawk. I wholly agree with you. It's a big turn down to try to be roleplayish if the player or I am like you say is just

  Quote

[...] an actor in a train ride forcing me to do what the game wants.

It's kinda goes against everything Roleplaying stands for in my opinion.

[TheTerminator2004]

I pretty much agree with Lord Nyghthawk here. An rpg is a game which lets you choose a role, and play it; hence the 'role playing game'.

 

So, an rpg is a game that lets you create a character of your own, and then drops you in a nice big world, where you can create your own story. Obviously most have detailed main stories, but they still allow you to flesh out your character, and play him/her as you like, affecting the rest of the world as you do so. If a game forces you into some preset mould, then it isn't an rpg.

 

EVE Online is an rpg for example, despite being an MMO. Why? Because it lets you create a character of your own, then drops you into a massive universe and leaves you to create your own story. You could play as a Gallentean trader, peacefully hauling goods between stations, or you could become a pirate, lurking at jumpgates and attacking anyone careless enough to come near. You can create your character how you like, and play them how you like. Obviously EVE is different because most of the other inhabitants of the world are controlled by real people, but the premise is fundamentally the same - it just makes things more realistic, as no-one can program a PC to act 100% like a human being.