[LE] Fear Aura question

[forascalon]

I'm having trouble making a "Fear" effect work as the damage of an "aura" type spell. Basically I'm copying the Ebony Mail enchantment so that instead of Poison damage ticking every second it will do a Fear type effect instead.

 

So far I can get the effect to proc - hostile enemies receive the shadowy "hit" effect specified - but they aren't being feared away from me.

 

It's a very complex set of spells within spells - basically the "DA02PoisonDamageFFAimed" magic effect is called every second, but if you change the details of the effect from "Value Modifier" to "Demoralized" archetype, and remove the PoisonResist resistance it just doesn't appear do anything at all. It has to remain a "Concentration" type effect, and be "aimed" as opposed to Self or Constant, but I just can't seem to get it to actually effect the enemies' confidence levels.

 

Any suggestions?

 

 

P.S. I'm talking about the magic effect properties on this type of menu: https://www.creationkit.com/index.php?title=Magic_Effect

[lofgren]

Well the obvious first question is what level enemies you are dealing with and what level enemies the spell is set for.

[forascalon]

I've tinkered with the strength of the spell several different ways:

 

- The actual damage effect is caused by a "spell" which is referenced by the primary magic effect of the enchantment. (Complex, I know, but it works for the original poison effect), so I edit the strength of my fear spell to do anywhere from 10 to 50 points of the "demoralize" magic effect. I've saved and reloaded to try several increments between these two values with no visible difference.

- In testing I've set my character to 100 Illusion with all the perks.

- I've tried this on Falmer of several levels and some general NPCs in Solitude. Each time the effect is "triggered" successfully - i.e. you can see the "hit" effect listed - but there seems to be no "Fear" effect working on the. If I equip a regular "Fear" spell on the character, he can cast it just fine at all these targets and it works.

Edited November 17, 2016 by forascalon

[lofgren]

The magnitude is the level of enemy who will be affected. Unless you add the proper keywords, perks will not enhance this magnitude. At magnitude 50, you should be able to affect most enemies.

[lofgren]

a .

 

Edit: Well that was weird. There was a whole post above when I last left this page, and now all that is left is "a ."

 

What I had written was, make sure you are not loading a save where armor is already equipped.

Edited November 18, 2016 by lofgren

[forascalon]

WOOHOO! I figured it out!

 

To make an "Aura" with the Fear effect:

 

First you create the "Aura" spell or enchantment - you can use any of the pre-existing ones as templates. Each one uses a Magic Effect to define what the spell looks like on you (hit shader), what sounds it makes, etc., but most importantly the "Associated Item" which is the Damage Spell. You then create a "spell" that calls a second Magic Effect that actually does the damage - again, pre-existing damage spells are fine for templates.

 

The catch is that for ILLUSION type spells you're not using the same Magic Effect "archetype". For Fire, Frost, Shock, and even the Poison effect on the Ebony Mail they all use "Value Modifier" and specify whether Health, Magicka, or Stamina is getting lowered. For the "Value Modifier" archetype, specifying a "Concentration" type spell is what Bethesda does - so you have a constant tick of "damage" whenever the spell comes into contact with a target. For ILLUSION the archetype is different - for Fear, specifically, it's "Demoralize" which lowers Confidence - and this CANNOT BE A CONCENTRATION TYPE SPELL!! I just set the damage spell's magic effect to be "Fire and Forget" and voila! it works!

 

Now I just have to tinker with the strength and timer on the effect to reach a good balance. Thank you all for your suggestions!

[forascalon]

Well now, here's a nice little tidbit for anyone wanting to make a Fear Aura enchantment or spell:

 

When you make the base magic effect, whether it's an enchantment or a spell, you use the "Cloak" archetype if you're following a template. That archetype ONLY allows you to select "Concentration" type spells from the Assoc. Item 1 drop-down list, which means if you've created a damage spell that uses a magic effect with the "Demoralize" archetype and a "Fire and Forget" casting type, you WON'T BE ABLE TO SELECT IT as the associated item for your primary magic effect....

 

In testing, if I create a damage spell with NO EFFECT listed and set it to "Concentration" casting type, I can then choose it as the associated item for my primary magic effect. If I then go and CHANGE that casting type to Fire and Forget, it lets me select the custom Fear damage effects I created just fine, and AS LONG AS I DON'T OPEN THE PRIMARY EFFECT AGAIN I can save the mod and it works perfectly. However, if I open the primary magic effect (the one listed on the enchantment, or the actual spell you cast) it has no associated item with it and will no longer trigger the damage spell.

 

I know that all sounds complex, but it's what I've discovered. I'll try using a different Archetype instead of "Cloak" since it doesn't really have to be a cloak spell to function the way it does, but I'm willing to bet that just breaks it in a new and exciting way, lol.

[lofgren]

You need to use the cloak archetype if you want to create a fear aura. I guess you could script it, but what's wrong with using a cloak and a concentration spell?

[forascalon]

The problem with using the Cloak archetype and a Concentration-type damage spell is that the Demoralize archetype on the damage spell will not work as a Concentration cast type - the spell "hits" the target visually, but has no actual effect. As far as I've been able to tell the only way for a fear spell to work is as a "Fire and Forget" casting type, simply because of the way it affects the target's "Confidence"; for whatever reason, it just won't work as a Concentration spell. I suspect it's because "Confidence" can't be restored like Health, Stamina, or Magicka - it just functions differently.

 

That being said, I don't think you necessarily have to use the Cloak archetype to make something with the same effect. As long as you're using the Hit Shaders and other visual effects from the spell of your choice (in my case, the Ebony Mail) you might be able to use some other archetype and still chain the primary effect to your damage spell - I'm not sure, I'll have to play around with that. In the meantime, I also need to test publishing the mod and having a friend try to use it, to see if saving it wonky like I described above allows it to work for her.

 

Cheers!

[lofgren]

Fear affects work as concentration spells.

 

Visual affects only affect the way that a spell works in rare situations.

 

You can potentially script the effect you are looking for but I see little value in that when cloak is available and does exactly what you want.