skyrim won't give back used RAM?

[Dan3345]

I posted this in the skyrim technical support board but since I got no replies there and this seems to be more of a software conflict then a problem with skyrim itself I am posting here.

 

Background info: I recently built a new computer, I completely erased everything on my old HDD with a clean install of windows 7 64 bit. I got a new motherboard (a gigabyte 990FX) 2 sticks of corsair vengeance RAM (8gb's total) 1 6950 2gb MSI factory overclock 810 mhz, 1100T black CPU, 950 watt silencer PSU. I am really stumped. I installed two games yesterday after installing drivers and updating windows. Saints row the third, and skyrim. Saints row plays fine and after quitting the game my computer is fine. Skyrim however plays fine also, but when I quit everything in my computer is slow. Moving the mouse over the taskbar to highligh or expand my pinned shortcuts is slow and delayed, opening up the start button is slow, typing into start to search is slow and delayed, if I open CCC it opens but I can never click on anything within it and must close it using task manager. I am using trend micro titanium which after loading skyrim cannot open at all. steam slows to a near stop.

 

Things I have done.

 

Ensured drivers are up to date.

Removed bloat ware that came with windows

cleaned registry

ran skyrim as administrator

ran windows memory diagnostic (which found no problems)

put the PSU on high performance mode

checked temps of everything which are all fine (CPU idles at 26, GPU idles at 40-45)

 

So one thing I have thought of would be my RAM placement is bad. When I built the computer I put both sticks right next to each other starting from the furthest open slot on the right. I have read in the past about how dual channels might need to be spaced with one open slot between them because timings look like this on some mobo 4231 numbers being the RAM slots of course, and so the first stick would go in 1, the second would go in 2, etc. etc.

 

I am really stumped. Its not a huge deal because it seems to only be caused by skyrim but it is frustrating. The only fix for the slow down is a reboot.

 

Thanks for any help, I am not so knowledgeable when it comes to the timings and workings of RAM....

 

 

 

I should mention that for the slow down to take affect I do not have to load my save in skyrim I simply have to launch the game and then quit. So that leaves me to believe skyrim is reserving ram for itself and not giving it back but when I check task manager I do not see any sign of this. My RAM sits at 23% when idle and 30-40% when gaming. After skyrim it appears to go back to 23% but RAM is the only thing I can think of that would cause this.

Edited December 27, 2011 by Dan3345

[Vecna6667]

I am thinking that you didn't fully erase your hard drive as thouroughly as you think you did. Most drives don't have a problem with just deleting the partitions and reformating the drive, but having the drive at the factory default of all binary zeroes is the only way to garauntee a clean install on a clean drive. This is why I use a new hard drive or a I run a drive nuking application like Darik Boot and Nuke. Hard Drive manufacturers also provide a piece of diagnostic software that also has a feature to write the entire hard drive to all binary zeroes.

 

However for your dual-channel to work, you can have all four slots filled or two filled out with a space(one stick in slot 1, and the other in slot 3, or slots 2 and 4. So yes having a space between your RAM sticks helps or just go for max RAM.)

Edited December 27, 2011 by Vecna6667

[hoofhearted4]

yea, your ram could be the issue. as said, if they are right next to each other then they arent in duel channel. usually you put the RAM in the same color socket, blue/blue black.black etc. look at your mobo manual and it will tell you where to put your RAM.

[Dan3345]

Yeah I swtiched the RAM to be spaced now as the manual stated. The mobo RAM slots are not color coated so I assumed it would be fine.. I will see if this helps.

[Dan3345]

I am thinking that you didn't fully erase your hard drive as thouroughly as you think you did. Most drives don't have a problem with just deleting the partitions and reformating the drive, but having the drive at the factory default of all binary zeroes is the only way to garauntee a clean install on a clean drive. This is why I use a new hard drive or a I run a drive nuking application like Darik Boot and Nuke. Hard Drive manufacturers also provide a piece of diagnostic software that also has a feature to write the entire hard drive to all binary zeroes.

 

However for your dual-channel to work, you can have all four slots filled or two filled out with a space(one stick in slot 1, and the other in slot 3, or slots 2 and 4. So yes having a space between your RAM sticks helps or just go for max RAM.)

 

 

I just moved the RAM and then played skyrim and got the same result, so I am thinking you are right and will try this when i get the chance. Which program would you recommend? What will happen when I use it?

[hoofhearted4]

I am thinking that you didn't fully erase your hard drive as thouroughly as you think you did. Most drives don't have a problem with just deleting the partitions and reformating the drive, but having the drive at the factory default of all binary zeroes is the only way to garauntee a clean install on a clean drive. This is why I use a new hard drive or a I run a drive nuking application like Darik Boot and Nuke. Hard Drive manufacturers also provide a piece of diagnostic software that also has a feature to write the entire hard drive to all binary zeroes.

 

However for your dual-channel to work, you can have all four slots filled or two filled out with a space(one stick in slot 1, and the other in slot 3, or slots 2 and 4. So yes having a space between your RAM sticks helps or just go for max RAM.)

 

 

I just moved the RAM and then played skyrim and got the same result, so I am thinking you are right and will try this when i get the chance. Which program would you recommend? What will happen when I use it?

 

there is a program called Parted Magic you can use. not sure if you can just download it or not. i know its free, but i borrowed it from a friend who has burned it onto a disk. but ya, if you can get that (wither by download or burning it) there is a tool in there that lets you shred your disk. basically rewriting everything to 0s.

[Vecna6667]

Try to create a backup image on an external hard drive and create a repair disk using Windows 7 Backup utility first unless you want to pay for a new Windows 7 Operating System. There are many programs that can nuke a hard drive, but the best ones are Darik's Boot and Nuke and the diagnostic utilities from the hard drive manufactures (I know Western Digital provides one on their website for free but only for their Hard Drives. I don't know about Seagate.) Darik's Boot and Nuke is free and can be burned to a CD just google the name. A warning on Dariks Boot and Nuke. It WILL nuke ALL Hard Drives it finds so only have the Hard Drives you want wiped clean connected and disconnect all others. But only do this a last resort. Check to see if any one else can offer a solution and check on other forums including Bethesda's forums.

 

I just remembered to ask whether you have your virtual memory running or not? Games like to offload used RAM into a PAGE file so that they load faster on the next startup, but some game will keep the RAM if they can't offload it and they keep the usage hidden. I have an attached photo of how to get to the Virtual Memory in Windows 7. I manually manage the virtual memory on my computer so the top box is not checked.

[Dan3345]

No I do not have virtual memory. I have been trying to figure out what to do about it, I know how to get to that page in the image but the system says it recommends I have 12000mb's or so of RAM, and I have 8 so I assume it wants me to fill in the gap by adding 4 gigs of virtual RAM?

See how in your attached image in the virtual memory window it says recommended? Well for me next to that it has this number "12283", and says I have "8189" currently allocated. Seeing as how this problem is only related to skyrim I am guessing this IS RAM related and a HDD nuke is not necessary. Besides I don't have time for one right now... So what would you recommend I enter in the field for the "initial size", and "maximum size?" And then once I enter it do I just press OK?

 

If you don't mind would you explain what virtual memory is? To me it sounds like I am reserving a portion of space in the HDD for the computer to use a slower form RAM.

 

Thanks for the help so far guys I really appreciate it!

[Vecna6667]

No I do not have virtual memory. I have been trying to figure out what to do about it, I know how to get to that page in the image but the system says it recommends I have 12000mb's or so of RAM, and I have 8 so I assume it wants me to fill in the gap by adding 4 gigs of virtual RAM?

See how in your attached image in the virtual memory window it says recommended? Well for me next to that it has this number "12283", and says I have "8189" currently allocated. Seeing as how this problem is only related to skyrim I am guessing this IS RAM related and a HDD nuke is not necessary. Besides I don't have time for one right now... So what would you recommend I enter in the field for the "initial size", and "maximum size?" And then once I enter it do I just press OK?

 

If you don't mind would you explain what virtual memory is? To me it sounds like I am reserving a portion of space in the HDD for the computer to use a slower form RAM.

 

Thanks for the help so far guys I really appreciate it!

 

The old standard rule with virtual memory is 1.5 times the regular ram so it recommends that you assign 12000mb of hard drive space as virtual memory. However RAM has gotten better so you can assign any amount these days with your 8GB of RAM. You try 4000mb and move up if needed or you can set a range of a minimum and maximum. I don't recommend going over the 12000mb recommended amount.

 

Edit: As for what Virtual Memory is, you are correct. You are reserving a portion of Hard Drive space for a slower form of RAM. However, regular RAM likes to hold onto whatever information is in it until the computer powers off. When you start a program, information is called up from the hard drive to the RAM which sends instruction to the CPU on what to do. When the program closes down, the information in RAM is suppose to clear up, but in many cases the RAM holds onto the info and doesn't report that space is still in use even when it is not because there is a possibility that the program gets called into use again. Since it doesn't report still having the info, it looks like you more than you actually have. Virtual Memory provides a dumping ground for the RAM when it starts to run out of room. Information not in use gets dumped into PAGEFILE.SYS and frees up space in RAM then when the program that provided the unused info starts up again, the RAM knows exactly where that information is and can call it back up quicker without having to search the whole hard drive. Virtual Memory was made at a time when RAM was expensive enough to bankrupt companies for large amounts. Now, with RAM being very cheap, virtual memory acts more like a cache for RAM. I don't know if Virtual Memory loses its data if the computer powers off like standard RAM.

 

Final Edit: Can you provide a snapshot of your virtual memory window. Using the search bar, type "snipping tool" without the quotes and trace a box over the virtual memory table. Save the picture as a JPEG(Save As in the file menu) and attach the file. I want to see what you have before you make any changes.

Edited December 28, 2011 by Vecna6667

[Dan3345]

No I do not have virtual memory. I have been trying to figure out what to do about it, I know how to get to that page in the image but the system says it recommends I have 12000mb's or so of RAM, and I have 8 so I assume it wants me to fill in the gap by adding 4 gigs of virtual RAM?

See how in your attached image in the virtual memory window it says recommended? Well for me next to that it has this number "12283", and says I have "8189" currently allocated. Seeing as how this problem is only related to skyrim I am guessing this IS RAM related and a HDD nuke is not necessary. Besides I don't have time for one right now... So what would you recommend I enter in the field for the "initial size", and "maximum size?" And then once I enter it do I just press OK?

 

If you don't mind would you explain what virtual memory is? To me it sounds like I am reserving a portion of space in the HDD for the computer to use a slower form RAM.

 

Thanks for the help so far guys I really appreciate it!

 

The old standard rule with virtual memory is 1.5 times the regular ram so it recommends that you assign 12000mb of hard drive space as virtual memory. However RAM has gotten better so you can assign any amount these days with your 8GB of RAM. You try 4000mb and move up if needed or you can set a range of a minimum and maximum. I don't recommend going over the 12000mb recommended amount.

 

Edit: As for what Virtual Memory is, you are correct. You are reserving a portion of Hard Drive space for a slower form of RAM. However, regular RAM likes to hold onto whatever information is in it until the computer powers off. When you start a program, information is called up from the hard drive to the RAM which sends instruction to the CPU on what to do. When the program closes down, the information in RAM is suppose to clear up, but in many cases the RAM holds onto the info and doesn't report that space is still in use even when it is not because there is a possibility that the program gets called into use again. Since it doesn't report still having the info, it looks like you more than you actually have. Virtual Memory provides a dumping ground for the RAM when it starts to run out of room. Information not in use gets dumped into PAGEFILE.SYS and frees up space in RAM then when the program that provided the unused info starts up again, the RAM knows exactly where that information is and can call it back up quicker without having to search the whole hard drive. Virtual Memory was made at a time when RAM was expensive enough to bankrupt companies for large amounts. Now, with RAM being very cheap, virtual memory acts more like a cache for RAM. I don't know if Virtual Memory loses its data if the computer powers off like standard RAM.

 

Final Edit: Can you provide a snapshot of your virtual memory window. Using the search bar, type "snipping tool" without the quotes and trace a box over the virtual memory table. Save the picture as a JPEG(Save As in the file menu) and attach the file. I want to see what you have before you make any changes.

 

Hey thanks for the reply! I have been away from home for the last three days and was not able to check up on this, but yeah thanks for the info. I will try and take a screen of virtual memory page for you to take a look at but first I must explain something I have found.

 

I bought from best-buy today a drive cleaner. The tool is called "Drive Scrubber" and has three options. 1. It can create a boot disk that will wipe everything on each plugged in drive/usb/floppy. 2. It will wipe everything but the OS, or 3. It will clean and delete (up to 100 times supposedly) everything you have already deleted and work around your installed programs and the OS. So I ran it on option three for about 3 hours until it was done. I then rebooted the computer and launched and quit skyrim to see what happened. Well the same slowness came back so I rebooted and then thought that it might shed some light to check out the CPU's activity. I hadn't before because after closing skyrim I didn't see the TESV.exe in task manager under processes, even when I looked at all user and system processes. So without seeing any sign of the application still functioning I didn't think to check the CPU. But then today I installed a small gadget that shows my core temp using core-temp the app, and shows me core activity and RAM usage, and current clock. I found that my CPU idles normally at 25 degrees Celsius and I had 22% of RAM being used. My CPU on my motherboard is designed to sit at lower mhz when not in use so that the temperature is lowered and it uses less power. So it idles at 792mhz.

 

This is where I found the weirdness. After launching skyrim the CPU jumps its processing speed up to 3300mhz, RAM usage jumped to 35-40% and the temperature went to 35 degrees Celsius. Now after closing skyrim to desktop, the CPU usage remains the same. It does not stop. So somewhere along the lines I believe skyrim is not stopping a command. I have two theories now. 1. Skyrim Script Extender is the culprit. I have no proof of this or evidence but it is the only application I have installed for skyrim and its really all I can imagine doing something strange. 2. Skyrim's exe is broken and I should reinstall.

 

So whatever is happening it appears to be CPU related. I want to stress this does not happen with any other game or application, only skyrim. It requires a full reboot to fix, and my temperatures are well within their boundaries for safe operation. I also cannot find the application for skyrim in task manager after closing skyrim. So that's all I found. Thanks for the help, and ideas..