[WIP] Weapon Addition and Replacement Suite (WARS)

[antistar]

Thanks for all the info on radiation and related protections, medicine, etc. It's a relief to know that I probably won't need to change too much there. ;)

Something I was thinking about while reading the first page of this thread again is, how are super mutants going to use the assault rifle now? The thing has custom animations right? so they can't use those without another mod that makes supermutants use custom animations. I guess you could fix it with a keyword since we will only see 3rd person anims on them so they would just hold it with vanilla anims that could be controlled by that keyword and a condition that references supermutants I guess. I would hate to see a game where supermutants just run at me with melee weapons because they can't use an assault rifle anymore.

At the moment they just don't spawn with Assault Rifles (aka the AR-15) anymore. They still have other ranged weapons though - off the top of my head; pipe guns, hunting rifles, miniguns. If I were to fix up the keywords/subgraphs/whatever to allow super mutants to at least use certain other ranged weapons (even if the animations wouldn't look quite right), it would probably be for something like the Volkssturmgewehr and/or Handmade AKM, rather than the AR-15. I just made a note to have a look at that when I get a chance, actually.

 

My mate finish this already I want those juicy weapon overhauls!

Cool your jets; Progress is stalled due to reasons entirely out of Antistar's hands.

Also,quality takes time.

 

Haha don't worry, it's fine; I feel the same way. ;) Trust me though that I've been wanting it longer than anyone else.

 

Moldy's right though that at the moment I need to wait for the AmmoTweaks update. That does give me the opportunity to do some work on WARS' sister mod PEACE, however - which I'm enjoying. Speaking of which:

 

 

I've been hammering out more of what the encumbrance overhaul will be like. Both Strength and equipment with storage capacity is needed to be able to carry a lot of stuff. For now, with 10 or more STR and the best (load-bearing) equipment you can find equipped across both legs, both arms, torso and backpack, you'll be able to carry 120 lbs. (With no equipment, the same character would be able to carry 20 lbs - just for a bit of wiggle room.) A character with the same equipment but only 1-3 STR would be able to carry 60 lbs.

 

That's just with the best equipment. This also all becomes more complicated with apparel weighing less when equipped (and even less with ranks in Strong Back), weapons effectively compensating for their own weight (plus a full load of ammo) when equipped, etc.

 

These values may be a little generous compared to how much real humans can reasonably carry while still being able to move around without falling over exhausted after a few steps, but if I reduce them much more I think the variance between different STR values and different load-bearing equipment would become too compressed. (For what it's worth I did look at some articles on how much US soldiers are expected to carry - and how well or how poorly they manage it.)

 

At the moment I'm looking at carry weight with power armour. At first I was concerned over how I'd handle the game ignoring effects on normal clothing/armour (e.g. the carry weight bonuses) when you hop into some power armour... but then it occurred to me that it could actually be a good thing. It kind of makes sense that you can't access your normal pockets, pouches and backpack when inside power armour, so what if I added a separate line of equipment progression for power armour storage capacity?

 

So now I'm getting started adding pouches and whatnot that attach to power armour pieces: each leg, each arm, and the torso. These are on new omod slots, like the power armour cargo carrier I mentioned earlier. After a quick test, it looks like it should work fine.

 

Without any load-bearing equipment on your power armour, you'll only be able to carry around 20 lbs. I'm aiming to have a couple of tiers of pouches (ideally with visual differences) on each armour piece, leading up to a maximum carry weight of probably 150 lbs. Add the cargo carrier and you can carry 300 lbs. (Flat values for all these since it's the armour carrying the weight.)

 

Obviously this is all heavy WIP, but that's what I'm thinking at the moment.

 

 

... You know, people used to ask me if I'd ever make an Armour Mod Kits for FO3. Well just look at me now. ;)

[Moldy]

Looting is a critical part of the game,and a 120 Bethesda Funny Unit carry capacity means you can't loot for love nor money,as the highest value loot,modified weapons and armour,especially Legendary variants,will consume a huge chunk of that. Characters without maximized Strength,just beginning the game,won't be able to loot at all. This means players won't be able to make money,nor would they be able to get scrap. They'd have to rush to level 15,and then rush through the Automatron DLC in order to make a robot for the exclusive purpose of being a pack mule.

 

Weapons have mass. Ammo has mass. Armour has mass. Clothing has mass. First aid items have mass. Performance boosters have mass. Between the primary weapon,ten reloads for it,secondary weapon,apparel,and aid items every character and their grandmother will be carrying around,there'll be no room for that critical loot.

[Bottletopman]

 

 

Bethesda Funny Unit

 

You mean imperial funny unit

[deskins30]

 

Bethesda Funny Unit

You mean imperial funny unit

Either way, the "weight" system in Bethesda games doesn't really track with either pounds or grams. It's more of a weird combination of pounds, volume, and general usefulness to the player. Honestly, I'd say just cut the base carryweight in half, and tweak the scaling to where you hit the base game max carryweight only if you spec into it with both your stats and equipment. Or, as your focus seems to be more on the realities of trying to hump all that junk across the Commonwealth, simply put a movement speed and sprint cost debuff on the character after they hit a certain percentage of their carryweight like a lot of the Skyrim encumbrance mods do, and calculate the threshold percentages from the players strength and endurance, maybe even have the bags add a certain flat boost to the calculation in addition to the carryweight bonus.

[dragonslayer2k12]

The whole inventory system in bethesda games does not work right at all and it makes the game kinda boring. You can keep picking up this junk you just can't run anymore but keep walking with this giant invisible bag of holding on your back... or maybe everything goes up the player butt haha!

 

I have that power armor backpacks mod that gives me a reason to use power armor to pretend I'm carrying it all around in those automatron bag assets. What we really need is a vehicle to carry stuff in once we get out of a location and we need an inventory system that works on bags or backpacks only so no more stuffing stuff up your character butt and picking up more. I have that mobile mechanic mod that lets you scrap things and scrap junk into basic components that helps with the carrying problem and I use several mods that add bags and backpacks and stuff to make it look like my character is carrying a lot of stuff. If we had a way to make whatever bag mod the player is using visually increase in size as they pick stuff up so the bags they wear get bigger until there is no more room and they can't pick up stuff anymore. There should be a thing that lets you carry one heavy gun slung around to the front on a strap when not drawn and one regular gun on the back and a sidearm or melee weapon on the side. If the player picks up another gun after that it goes into a bag of holding or they can disassemble the gun into parts and store them but they can't just whip out that gun they have to reassemble it before use.

 

It could go like this for inventory...

 

The player can't pick up more than one set of clothes and then they have to put it on. The player can't pick up more than one handgun it would be holstered when not in use. The player can't pick up more than one rifle or sub machine gun anything that is not a small gun and it will be slung over the shoulder when not in use. The player can't pick up more than one big gun it will be slung over the stomach when not in use. The player can't pick up anything at all that is not a gun or a set of clothes or a clothing item without picking up a bag of some kind. Either one of those Merc Gear A things from the mercenary mod or a shoulder bag like those postman bag mods or something from the field scribe backpack mod and so on. Each bag would be a container that could only hold a certain amount of weight and some bags would be too small to hold big things like guns or big guns or armors or whatever. So lets say the Merc Gear A torso bag thing could hold small stuff like grenades or junk or keys and stuff while something bigger could hold a gun or two but anything more than two regular guns would have to be taken apart disassembled and stored.

 

I guess the player could disassemble big guns up to a certain amount and store the parts in bigger bags like the field scribe backpack or something that would use a keyword for large bag. So those bags would be containers and only hold a certain amount of weight and the weight those bags were carrying would be applied to the player carry weight amount. Without some kind of small bag being worn the player can't access their inventory there would be no inventory without a bag of some kind. That means the player could drop their entire inventory by dropping that one bag or however many bags they were wearing.

Edited March 28, 2019 by dragonslayer2k12

[Bottletopman]

 

 

Bethesda Funny Unit

You mean imperial funny unit

Either way, the "weight" system in Bethesda games doesn't really track with either pounds or grams. It's more of a weird combination of pounds, volume, and general usefulness to the player. Honestly, I'd say just cut the base carryweight in half, and tweak the scaling to where you hit the base game max carryweight only if you spec into it with both your stats and equipment. Or, as your focus seems to be more on the realities of trying to hump all that junk across the Commonwealth, simply put a movement speed and sprint cost debuff on the character after they hit a certain percentage of their carryweight like a lot of the Skyrim encumbrance mods do, and calculate the threshold percentages from the players strength and endurance, maybe even have the bags add a certain flat boost to the calculation in addition to the carryweight bonus.

 

 

It's measured in pounds. One of the FO3 loading screens also mentions that it's measured in pounds. Years ago I thought about trying a metric conversion but gave up because I'm a lazy mofo.

[antistar]

Looting is a critical part of the game,and a 120 Bethesda Funny Unit carry capacity means you can't loot for love nor money,as the highest value loot,modified weapons and armour,especially Legendary variants,will consume a huge chunk of that. Characters without maximized Strength,just beginning the game,won't be able to loot at all. This means players won't be able to make money,nor would they be able to get scrap. They'd have to rush to level 15,and then rush through the Automatron DLC in order to make a robot for the exclusive purpose of being a pack mule.

 

Weapons have mass. Ammo has mass. Armour has mass. Clothing has mass. First aid items have mass. Performance boosters have mass. Between the primary weapon,ten reloads for it,secondary weapon,apparel,and aid items every character and their grandmother will be carrying around,there'll be no room for that critical loot.

I have been thinking about all this - all along, really. This is a big part of the reason for weapons essentially weighing nothing when equipped, and armour weighing a lot less when equipped, down to nothing with 5 ranks in Strong Back. Taking those things into account, the (approximately) 60-120 Carry Weight range ends up not being too far off the base CW range you get in vanilla Survival Mode. That being 85-175 CW, I think. (Though admittedly that's before taking things like vanilla Strong Back and vanilla CW bonuses on certain equipment into account.)

 

Lately I've been thinking about the early game in particular. I'm not just leaving the level 1 sole survivor hanging with 10-20 CW and nothing else (thanks to their skin-tight, pocket-less vault suit). I placed a couple of Vault-Tec branded satchel bags around Vault 111 for the starting player to grab. Most NPCs will be wearing a backpack or something too - since they'll need it - so the expected progression is for the player to loot a makeshift sack-backpack from a raider early on. (Reasonable amount of storage, but very cumbersome; i.e. -2 or -3 AGI.)

 

I am also expecting the player to need to make use of pack-brahmin, companions, robots and whatever else (e.g. salvage beacons) to help with carrying and looting things. You may remember me saying a while ago that I expected heavy weapons (with WARS and/or PEACE) to be something that you don't carry on you at all times (unless you're in power armour maybe), but instead something that you grab off your pack-brahmin/robot if the need for it comes up. This is that expectation coming into play now.

 

As an aside, it's worth mentioning that (notably excepting heavy weapons) most weapons in WARS are lighter than in the base game - I spent a lot of time researching those (relatively) realistic weight values. I'm also hoping to incorporate more realistic weight values for things like junk items too; no more light bulbs that weigh half a pound.

 

Anyway, this is all going to make the logistics of equipping, carrying and looting more complicated, but that's what I want! That seems fun to me. I'd be more likely to use the word "interesting" rather than "complicated", really.

 

Of course, it may turn out that I get to testing all this in regular gameplay and end up saying "Wow this is miserable actually!" :wink: Then I'd need to tweak things, but that's fine; I'm open to that eventuality.

 

And if all else fails, base carry weight is determined by a single GMST - and the Strength multiplier to CW by a second one - so it would be trivial for someone to boost those to whatever they want and essentially bypass my whole encumbrance overhaul if it turns out that they hate it.

 

 

Either way, the "weight" system in Bethesda games doesn't really track with either pounds or grams. It's more of a weird combination of pounds, volume, and general usefulness to the player. Honestly, I'd say just cut the base carryweight in half, and tweak the scaling to where you hit the base game max carryweight only if you spec into it with both your stats and equipment. Or, as your focus seems to be more on the realities of trying to hump all that junk across the Commonwealth, simply put a movement speed and sprint cost debuff on the character after they hit a certain percentage of their carryweight like a lot of the Skyrim encumbrance mods do, and calculate the threshold percentages from the players strength and endurance, maybe even have the bags add a certain flat boost to the calculation in addition to the carryweight bonus.

"Simply". :tongue:

 

Early on (as in before I started on WARS, even) I had a poke around to see if I could progressively slow a character's movement speed as they approached their encumbrance limit - as in BGS' older games - but I couldn't find a way to get the player's current encumbrance via script, I think it was. Maybe I just missed something, or maybe that's possible via F4SE now. It's something I may come back to if it turns out to be possible.

 

WARS and PEACE definitely approach CW as an uneasy combination of mass and volume - for the sake of reaching a reasonable compromise. I'd love it if the game had an inventory/encumbrance system more like that in Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead (love that game), where mass and volume are treated as separate things (fancy that), but that would take a herculean amount of work to shoehorn into FO4, so yes... reasonable compromise.

 

 

The whole inventory system in bethesda games does not work right at all and it makes the game kinda boring. You can keep picking up this junk you just can't run anymore but keep walking with this giant invisible bag of holding on your back... or maybe everything goes up the player butt haha!

Yep, this is exactly what I'm trying to address with the encumbrance overhaul in PEACE. :smile:

 

That said, I'm not planning to try to prevent the player from moving at all while over-encumbered; they can still crawl along taking occasional damage if they want.

 

 

It could go like this for inventory...

 

The player can't pick up more than one set of clothes and then they have to put it on. The player can't pick up more than one handgun it would be holstered when not in use. The player can't pick up more than one rifle or sub machine gun anything that is not a small gun and it will be slung over the shoulder when not in use. The player can't pick up more than one big gun it will be slung over the stomach when not in use. The player can't pick up anything at all that is not a gun or a set of clothes or a clothing item without picking up a bag of some kind. Either one of those Merc Gear A things from the mercenary mod or a shoulder bag like those postman bag mods or something from the field scribe backpack mod and so on. Each bag would be a container that could only hold a certain amount of weight and some bags would be too small to hold big things like guns or big guns or armors or whatever. So lets say the Merc Gear A torso bag thing could hold small stuff like grenades or junk or keys and stuff while something bigger could hold a gun or two but anything more than two regular guns would have to be taken apart disassembled and stored.

 

I guess the player could disassemble big guns up to a certain amount and store the parts in bigger bags like the field scribe backpack or something that would use a keyword for large bag. So those bags would be containers and only hold a certain amount of weight and the weight those bags were carrying would be applied to the player carry weight amount. Without some kind of small bag being worn the player can't access their inventory there would be no inventory without a bag of some kind. That means the player could drop their entire inventory by dropping that one bag or however many bags they were wearing.

Early on (again, before starting on WARS) I was wondering about trying something like that; e.g. automatically dropping heavy weapons that aren't currently equipped. That seemed kind of annoying and arbitrary though, leading me to eventually settle on my current approach with limited CW, but weapons compensating for their weight (plus a full load of ammo) when equipped. So even if you were wearing nothing but a vault-suit, you could still (theoretically if not effectively) wield a fully-loaded minigun, for example.

 

Weapons needing somewhere to physically go - e.g. holsters and slings - is another thing that I'd absolutely love to see in the game, but unfortunately would be extremely difficult to do well.

 

 

It's measured in pounds. One of the FO3 loading screens also mentions that it's measured in pounds. Years ago I thought about trying a metric conversion but gave up because I'm a lazy mofo.

Yeah I'm just treating them as pounds. It seems fairly safe to assume that if at any point, any given BGS designer was thinking about specific weight units, it was pounds.

 

... As much as I wish that everything in the game at least had the option for metric measurements instead.

[Deleted17732829User]

links pls

[antistar]

WARS and PEACE are both still works in progress - hence the [WIP] tag on the thread.

[Deleted17732829User]

3 year without beta test, most likely the project is long dead