A question for my betters

[thesapien]

Do you die a lot? When you play on master difficulty can you play and play without dying? I find that I can't, especially when exploring new areas or coming across new enemies. Sure, I can try again and eventually find a way, maybe, but then... well, I guess it depends on how and why I'm playing the game at the time.

 

Last night I was playing as if my character really could die for good. My low level character came across a new dungeon and found someone looking for help. I said sure. But then as we progressed, I got a bad feeling because I was aiding a character obviously more powerful than me. The dungeon also was full of valuable items and powerful potions. I kept thinking I should just take what I've gotten and go. Instead, I changed my playing style. I actually created a new save before pressing on and when I did get my ass handed to me at the end, I just restarted from there and tried again.

 

I guess, what I'm saying for myself and asking from others, is that I enjoy playing a game like this in two very different ways. One, I'm immersed and try to behave as if dying is dying. When I do that, I tend to play on easier settings. But I also like to play in, well, play mode, where it's just a game with a save feature there to be used. It's there, so it's not cheating. No biggie, just try again. I really like this latter style, too, because sometimes it's kewl to find yourself while not playing still thinking about how to go back later and beat that one hard part for you, maybe even sleep on it. The problem with my immersive style is that I always want to start completely over after dying.

 

Anyway, I'm really curious, are there players out there who can pretty much do both because they're that good? Are there masters who can even enter a new quest and complete it without dying?

 

Btw, I'm not a master in any sense of the term here. Mostly, I like the middle setting where damage dealt and taken are not adjusted, again, adding to the immersion and my enjoyment of that style. Going up or down feels unfair because I'm crazy that way.

[Anatorax]

Whoa, that is many words.

 

In short, yes, I've read about people beating the game on master or getting pretty far (level 40+) without dying. But it depends on the playing style. I play on master as a dual-wielder and can kill a dragon priest in 15 seconds with ~6 power attacks, but if they do manage to hit me at least twice my character is dead. When I sneak around and kill things silently with a dagger I can clear the whole dungeon without fighting at all. But it is less fun. I can also imagine someone running in heavy armor with a shield, "turtling" and abusing restoration/potions in the middle of the fight, but then it would kill the fun for me. So I would just suggest to stop worrying about dying and just enjoy the game. In general, I think that Skyrim is not really suited for "dead-is-dead" play, it relies too heavily on levels rather than player's abilities and combat is not that flexible (no dodging, for example).

[Lachdonin]

I can also imagine someone running in heavy armor with a shield, "turtling" and abusing restoration/potions in the middle of the fight, but then it would kill the fun for me.

 

Ah, but this is the best! Trying to stay out of harms way long enough to heal (i don't use potions) while in a dungeon full of Draugr, your companion bleeding out on the floor and your weapon gods know where (from that damn dissarm shout) is a spectaculraly energetic feeling, as is throwing yourself back into the fray!

 

On the matter at hand, however. Dieing isn't something that should be happening ALL the time. The game has leveled enemies for a reason. Still, since each dungeon has an internal story, there are some things you aren't going to be able to get around. For instance, if you try to go the Galdur fragments, you going to HAVE to fight the three brothers. Doesn't matter if your level 40 or level 1.

 

Best thing to do, early on, is get Lydia and run around outside for awhile, leveling skills and leveling up. As much as she may be the weakest Houscarl, she can hold her own against everything short of a Giant or Mammoth on Adept, and even take on anything weaker and including a Bear on Expert and Master. This, she's a good leveling companion early on, and can take some hits while you strike from behind. Stay out of dungeons though, the woman has a no so nice nack for traps...

Edited December 31, 2011 by Lachdonin

[Shantih]

Some enemies can kill you with one finishing move. So it's not just about level scaling and it's pretty random (which means playing a no reload game can become a very frustrating experience).

 

Your actual playing style does matter. Some options make for a much more resilient character. Sometimes trying out different tactics make a hard fight a walk in the park.

 

I'm not playing on master because I don't want to deal with some nonsense like lower damage from my character and higher damage from anybody else. The problem with difficulty settings is that they usually make the game more tedious and simply more frustrating. Higher difficulty should be about enemies being "smarter" not about them being abe to have a multiplier that makes them take twice more hits before going down while dishing twice more damage. Besides it becomes slightly inane when you have to strike several times at a peasant in order to kill him.

 

Last but not least potions and food can be used at any time without any cooldown and without a timer and that is a major drawback. I'd rather play on normal difficulty without (ab)using potions rather than playing on master difficulty and going into the inventory to have my character drink up ten healing potions and eat 20 cabbages in the middle of a fight. I only use potions when my character can find some cover and only one at a time. It makes the game much more satisfying and probably more difficult. It also means that my character can't just stand there and take a beating. Using tactical retreats and restoration spells make a difference when you're not relying on potions for instant healing. :thumbsup:

[thesapien]

Whoa, that is many words.

 

In short, yes, I've read about people beating the game on master or getting pretty far (level 40+) without dying. But it depends on the playing style. I play on master as a dual-wielder and can kill a dragon priest in 15 seconds with ~6 power attacks, but if they do manage to hit me at least twice my character is dead. When I sneak around and kill things silently with a dagger I can clear the whole dungeon without fighting at all. But it is less fun. I can also imagine someone running in heavy armor with a shield, "turtling" and abusing restoration/potions in the middle of the fight, but then it would kill the fun for me. So I would just suggest to stop worrying about dying and just enjoy the game. In general, I think that Skyrim is not really suited for "dead-is-dead" play, it relies too heavily on levels rather than player's abilities and combat is not that flexible (no dodging, for example).

 

Sorry for the block of text.

 

Your response sits well with me. Yeah, I do overly try to avoid death, trying to be all like what would my character really do, when often I already know before hand what's ahead and trying not to remember so my character isn't "cheating". Silly me. Nothing like a first play through. I most enjoy encounters when I don't already know what will be used against me, what the enemy's weakness will be, the layout of the area, etc. Silly me, I still often pretend with my character by approaching "strangers" with caution but without weapons drawn even though I really know they are bandits or some other group that will attack me first just for walking by.

[thesapien]

I can also imagine someone running in heavy armor with a shield, "turtling" and abusing restoration/potions in the middle of the fight, but then it would kill the fun for me.

 

Ah, but this is the best! Trying to stay out of harms way long enough to heal (i don't use potions) while in a dungeon full of Draugr, your companion bleeding out on the floor and your weapon gods know where (from that damn dissarm shout) is a spectaculraly energetic feeling, as is throwing yourself back into the fray!

 

On the matter at hand, however. Dieing isn't something that should be happening ALL the time. The game has leveled enemies for a reason. Still, since each dungeon has an internal story, there are some things you aren't going to be able to get around. For instance, if you try to go the Galdur fragments, you going to HAVE to fight the three brothers. Doesn't matter if your level 40 or level 1.

 

Best thing to do, early on, is get Lydia and run around outside for awhile, leveling skills and leveling up. As much as she may be the weakest Houscarl, she can hold her own against everything short of a Giant or Mammoth on Adept, and even take on anything weaker and including a Bear on Expert and Master. This, she's a good leveling companion early on, and can take some hits while you strike from behind. Stay out of dungeons though, the woman has a no so nice nack for traps...

 

Good stuff, thanks.

One thing about bringing Lydia though is that you actually level up slower in combat skills, right?

Question: If you conjure something to fight for you, do you only level in conjuring and not their attacks?

I kind of wish the game didn't have some enemies level and others not. I start to feel like leveling doesn't matter against the ones who also level, so why level? I become a superbadass but so do so many other characters then. Skyrim becomes a place full of tough NPC's who have nothing to fear from dragons and especially nothing to fear from the nonleveling critters and wild life.

[thesapien]

Some enemies can kill you with one finishing move. So it's not just about level scaling and it's pretty random (which means playing a no reload game can become a very frustrating experience).

 

Your actual playing style does matter. Some options make for a much more resilient character. Sometimes trying out different tactics make a hard fight a walk in the park.

 

I'm not playing on master because I don't want to deal with some nonsense like lower damage from my character and higher damage from anybody else. The problem with difficulty settings is that they usually make the game more tedious and simply more frustrating. Higher difficulty should be about enemies being "smarter" not about them being abe to have a multiplier that makes them take twice more hits before going down while dishing twice more damage. Besides it becomes slightly inane when you have to strike several times at a peasant in order to kill him.

 

Last but not least potions and food can be used at any time without any cooldown and without a timer and that is a major drawback. I'd rather play on normal difficulty without (ab)using potions rather than playing on master difficulty and going into the inventory to have my character drink up ten healing potions and eat 20 cabbages in the middle of a fight. I only use potions when my character can find some cover and only one at a time. It makes the game much more satisfying and probably more difficult. It also means that my character can't just stand there and take a beating. Using tactical retreats and restoration spells make a difference when you're not relying on potions for instant healing. :thumbsup:

 

I share your sentiments.

 

I prefer difficulty settings to be about changing behavior of enemies, making them smarter, and also adding more of them. I hate it when instead it just makes my character handicapped. Like you said, otherwise, it kills the immersion against "lesser" foes later in the game when you still can't dish it out or take it like everyone else can.

 

Yeah, there's not even a potion animation so that you can get taken out while trying to drink or see who else might be drinking and needs to be watched. Guess that's why enemies in this game aren't able to drink potions. Actually, am I right on that? Companions will use potions if given to them, right? But enemies never do? Yeah, and who stops and eats during a fight? That maketh no sense to me.

[d3vo]

2nd & 3rd playthrough, I played on master difficulty. And beyond the fact that playing 1H/Shield is much better/easier than playing Mage, I've found the reason I die the most is by falling to high off a cliff because I like taking shortcuts!

 

Other than that, there are always the occasion cave/quest where there is one guy/dragon who either kills you in 1-3 hits or 1-3 really fast casting of Ice Storm spell. To which I just reload and try a more cautious approach. But I never change the difficulty. I keep trying no matter how many times I die lol.

[Cyrotek]

Its possible to play it on master withhout dieing. You can level up pretty fast at the start, lets say to lvl 15, withhout dieing, because most of the opponents are pretty weak till then. After that get Lydia, gear her up and watch her killing everything in her path ...

 

And to the poster above me: Mage isnt underpowered or anything. Just at the start till you get decent gear. Destructionmages are probaly the most "save" option to kill ... everything withhout getting hurt. The second strongest (in my opinion) is some sort of a stealther. Assassinate can kill nearly everything instantly if you do it right ...

Tryed a sword + shield build once. Managed it to get to around lvl 10 and was bored already. Startet a different mage build again.

 

Oh, and if you really want a challenging fight, rush the mages guild with a new character and try to beat the dragonpriest near the end on master around ... lvl 10? Its pretty funny ...

Edited December 31, 2011 by Cyrotek

[thesapien]

2nd & 3rd playthrough, I played on master difficulty. And beyond the fact that playing 1H/Shield is much better/easier than playing Mage, I've found the reason I die the most is by falling to high off a cliff because I like taking shortcuts!

 

Other than that, there are always the occasion cave/quest where there is one guy/dragon who either kills you in 1-3 hits or 1-3 really fast casting of Ice Storm spell. To which I just reload and try a more cautious approach. But I never change the difficulty. I keep trying no matter how many times I die lol.

 

I get it and do see the fun and challenge in playing that way. Play is for experimentation and to try things without risking real death.

 

But my favorite is still when I try to forget myself, immersed, and aim for pushing realism. I'll even then do things like eat when it's not required, drink wine and read a book. I try not to take big risks that would make my character seem suicidal or provoke fights just for some gold. I walk around bears but never make the mistake of running from one. As for dragons, well, it depends because I've installed the deadly dragons mod. Duty but caution.