Is this how creating a bashed patch works in Wrye bash? (mod organizer)

[lv1234]

1.So you download wyre bash to your oblivion or fallout or whatever directory...Enable it in MO

 

2.Then you run loot in your MO to reorganize your mods and allow them to be tagged correctly for bashed patch...

 

3. You create a bashed patch or rebuild it

 

4.It will disable mods that are about to be merged or put together since they all perform similar things or tasks (like mods that are involved with the same skin or similar armor)

 

5. You check off these options to merge your mods together

-Merge patches/mods

-import names

-import stats

-tweak settings

-leveled lists

 

6. Create the patch and then your mods that need to be merged together will be merged?

 

Is this correct? Also what if you want to merge more mods you have installed? Do you do the same thing again

 

 

 

 

 

[DrakeTheDragon]

Basically that's how it works, but the bashed patch isn't primarily about merging alone.

 

Plugins which can be completely merged into the patch ("marked mergeable") will be disabled, yes, but primarily the bashed patch is about solving conflicts rather than that.

If you don't have any completely mergeable plugins, there'll even be more plugins in your load order later, the bashed patch will be an additional one.

 

 

Its true power is the use of the Bash Tags to only take and merge specific parts (data records) of a plugin into the patch, thus preserving what otherwise would be overridden by any later loading plugins affecting the same record sections.

 

For example the Rule of One would originally prevent you from using both, a male and a female, body replacer with plugin at the same time, for there can always ever only be 1 plugin controlling the settings of a race, the one loading later incorporates all its settings and overrides all previous ones as a result.

 

Now with proper tags, one for the plugin for the males and another one for the plugin for the females, the bashed patch will isolate only the male settings from the one plugin and the female settings from the other and merge them together into the bashed patch, thus preserving both in the end. Oblivion itself is not capable of doing that when loading more than 1 plugin affecting different genders of the same race at the same time.

 

 

And yes, whenever your load order changes, that means a plugin gets added or removed, or even only the order is changed, you'll basically have to recompile the bashed patch again to accommodate to that.

 

 

I for one wouldn't yet use LOOT for Oblivion but stick to its predecessor BOSS instead, but that's a matter of personal choice and you'll see how far you get with each of them soon enough.

 

Oh, and I don't know much about MO, so the points regarding that one need to be confirmed by someone else.

[lv1234]

Basically that's how it works, but the bashed patch isn't primarily about merging alone.

 

Plugins which can be completely merged into the patch ("marked mergeable") will be disabled, yes, but primarily the bashed patch is about solving conflicts rather than that.

If you don't have any completely mergeable plugins, there'll even be more plugins in your load order later, the bashed patch will be an additional one.

 

 

Its true power is the use of the Bash Tags to only take and merge specific parts (data records) of a plugin into the patch, thus preserving what otherwise would be overridden by any later loading plugins affecting the same record sections.

 

For example the Rule of One would originally prevent you from using both, a male and a female, body replacer with plugin at the same time, for there can always ever only be 1 plugin controlling the settings of a race, the one loading later incorporates all its settings and overrides all previous ones as a result.

 

Now with proper tags, one for the plugin for the males and another one for the plugin for the females, the bashed patch will isolate only the male settings from the one plugin and the female settings from the other and merge them together into the bashed patch, thus preserving both in the end. Oblivion itself is not capable of doing that when loading more than 1 plugin affecting different genders of the same race at the same time.

 

 

And yes, whenever your load order changes, that means a plugin gets added or removed, or even only the order is changed, you'll basically have to recompile the bashed patch again to accommodate to that.

 

 

I for one wouldn't yet use LOOT for Oblivion but stick to its predecessor BOSS instead, but that's a matter of personal choice and you'll see how far you get with each of them soon enough.

 

Oh, and I don't know much about MO, so the points regarding that one need to be confirmed by someone else.

1. so if i don't have mergable plugins now, chances are I will later as I keep downloading mods for my game?

2.So pretty much the bashed patch merges mods that conflict with each other because they do similar things and merges the mods so that they can easily work together without any conflict?

 

So pretty much use the bashed patches to clear up any conflicts and allow similar mods doing the similar things to work together?...Right after that do you simply just run the game through wyre bash or just your mod manager right after that?

[Striker879]

The bashed patch contains just the conflict winning records from your mods, plus any mods that are completely merged into your bashed patch (the mods that are merged and deactivated).

 

The bashed patch uses load order and bashed tags to determine which conflicting mod should "win" ... lower on the load order is the winner, whether that is just between two conflicting mods or even two conflicting bashed tags. The bashed patch is generally placed at the very bottom of your load order so that it's records are the ultimate winner.

[DrakeTheDragon]

And you don't need to start your game through any manager at all, unlike MO, which requires you to do just that or the files/mods it virtually installed will not be present.

 

The Bashed Patch is just another plugin once it's compiled. Its place in load order is important, thus like Striker said it's usually dead last to override all else with the extracted, isolated and merged settings so they survive.

 

But the actual starting of the game can be done by any means of your personal preference, or in case of MO just MO. You will need to run Wrye Bash through MO in order for it to even see your load order, but you most definitely won't need to start Wrye Bash through MO and then start the game through Wrye Bash, or even worse accumulations of start-through-manager chains like I have seen proposed so far. The game does not need to be started through WB in order for the Bashed Patch to work.

[Surilindur]

If you have a Steam + Oblivion + OBSE + Mod Organizer combination, then you should go to the "workarounds" tab in MO preferences and change the launch method to "script extender". That way, the files "hook.dll" and "mo_path.txt" should be created in your ...Oblivion\Data\OBSE\Plugins folder. After that, you should launch the game from Steam and click "play" in the Oblivion launcher. The game will load and OBSE with it, OBSE will load hook.dll and hook.dll will load Mod Organizer and your whole mod setup into the game. Oh, and if using MO, all your OBSE plugins (dll files) need to be installed into the actual game folder.

 

And yes, definitely do not chain a ton of things. Someone somewhere recommended launching Steam from within MO no less, and if something is odd, then that is. :P Use of common sense is permitted when working with mods - encouraged even.

[lv1234]

And you don't need to start your game through any manager at all, unlike MO, which requires you to do just that or the files/mods it virtually installed will not be present.

 

The Bashed Patch is just another plugin once it's compiled. Its place in load order is important, thus like Striker said it's usually dead last to override all else with the extracted, isolated and merged settings so they survive.

 

But the actual starting of the game can be done by any means of your personal preference, or in case of MO just MO. You will need to run Wrye Bash through MO in order for it to even see your load order, but you most definitely won't need to start Wrye Bash through MO and then start the game through Wrye Bash, or even worse accumulations of start-through-manager chains like I have seen proposed so far. The game does not need to be started through WB in order for the Bashed Patch to work.

Alright, So after I am finished with my bashed patch, i should be able to still launch the game with the bashed patches and my game should run fine?

 

Also could you answer my previous questions in my previous comment please? Just to make things clear with me :)

[lv1234]

If you have a Steam + Oblivion + OBSE + Mod Organizer combination, then you should go to the "workarounds" tab in MO preferences and change the launch method to "script extender". That way, the files "hook.dll" and "mo_path.txt" should be created in your ...Oblivion\Data\OBSE\Plugins folder. After that, you should launch the game from Steam and click "play" in the Oblivion launcher. The game will load and OBSE with it, OBSE will load hook.dll and hook.dll will load Mod Organizer and your whole mod setup into the game. Oh, and if using MO, all your OBSE plugins (dll files) need to be installed into the actual game folder.

 

And yes, definitely do not chain a ton of things. Someone somewhere recommended launching Steam from within MO no less, and if something is odd, then that is. :tongue: Use of common sense is permitted when working with mods - encouraged even.

I already done that

 

BTW why do I feel like this is way off topic

[Striker879]

When you start the game and load a save the game first loads Oblivion.esm and then starts working down your load order from top to bottom loading the next valid file it finds (which is why all ESMs must be sorted to the top of your load order). The game doesn't care what each ESP changes/adds to the game, it just loads whatever changes/additions are found in the next file down the list and then repeats the process. If you had five ESPs in your load order and each ESP changed exactly the same thing the only ESP's changes that would actually be seen after your game starts is the bottom ESP's changes ... each of the ESPs above the bottom one would just have their change overwritten by the next lower ESP.

 

Now very seldom will you find an ESP that changes only a single record in the game, and it would be quite unlikely to find two ESPs that each change all of exactly the same things. It's not unusual to find multiple ESPs that change some of the same things though, along with their other changes, and that's where Wrye Bash's bashed patch comes in.

 

By itself the game uses load order to determine what gets displayed in the game, and that's it. If those five mods each change the same thing along with all of their other changes the bottom mod in the load order wins the conflict ... end of story. With Wrye Bash and it's bashed patch however we can fine tune what gets displayed beyond simple load order by using it's bash tags.

 

If mods A, B, C, D, and E all make the a change to the same NPC's AI packges, mod C and D change that NPC's inventory, and A and D change the NPC's race and you wanted mod B's AI package, mod D's inventory and mod A's race you couldn't just arrange the load order so that each change you wanted would "win". NPC's that get edited wind up carrying over records that weren't actually edited. If you put mod B at the bottom of the load order so that it's AI package change wins you'll also be stuck with mod B's race and inventory.

 

Now if mod D included a bash tag for inventory and mod A had a tag for race you could load mod B at the bottom and mods D and A's changes will also win by being included in the bashed patch. Wrye Bash will see that all five change the same NPC's AI package so the lowest will win there, and it will take the records for each of those bash tags and put them in a separate ESP named the bashed patch (and that is all the bashed patch is ... an ESP that Wrye Bash creates), and put that bashed patch ESP at the bottom of your load order.

 

Yes this is somewhat simplified, but changes to NPCs is a common conflict ... look at how Oblivion Character Overhaul overwrites all the UOP changes to NPCs if you don't use a bashed patch.

Edited December 14, 2016 by Striker879

[Surilindur]

 

I already done that

 

BTW why do I feel like this is way off topic

 

 

Ooops. Well. It may be off topic, actually. :P It was just an addition of sorts to the mention of having to launch things through MO (which was in Drake's post). There are some people who ask about MO on the forums that do not really know how to use it properly with Oblivion. Some of them seem to come from Skyrim, where MO works a bit more smoothly (just a bit). Sorry. :blush: