LE Skyrim Building & Trade Co

[Tempest203]

Ok, first let me say, I have a degree in computer science, and would love to take a crack at this, but neither the time nor experience at the moment.

 

The idea is to create an Economy/ player home/ construction system that other mods could take advantage of and add on to. I’m going to break this into three stages.

 

Stage 1: The Skyrim Building & Trading Company

 

You hire an NPC and build the Company somewhere. (not in a city in case you don’t want to pay taxes, more on that later.) The Company would be your first player home and materials nexus it would function something like Vilandor in Glenvar Castle from Oblivion. Once an area is cleared and there are no quest conflicts, the player can pay to have it rebuilt and furnished. (Assuming someone has made an add on for that area.)

 

Stage 2: Production

 

NPCs can be hired and paid to work in these areas, mining, wood cutting, metal working, enchanting, trading, etc. The Company NPC will buy products from you at a reduced rate, but you make much more creating a complete chain yourself.

 

There could be quests related to training experienced smiths, alchemists, enchanters, etc. Things could be flushed out in hundreds of ways.

 

Stage 3: Death and Taxes.

 

If the local Jarl hears about your establishment, they’re going to want their cut. I think a fixed sum per week would work best, but a percentage would also work. If ignore the taxes and get found out, you risk being attacked by the Jarl’s men. You might have hired guards to help defend your holdings or simple do it yourself. Naturally this could count as criminal activity.

 

There are also the common thugs to consider, so hired guards might be needed in any case.

 

The wages, taxes, and thugs would need to be optional. Not everyone wants that sort of complexity

 

This idea would have to be flushed out considerably before it was built, but the most important thing is to get the system established and running so others could pick an area to redesign or start from scratch with.

[Bismarck]

A brilliant idea. I really love economical mods and in my oppinion, more complexity is better.

Give us guards, staff, thugs and greedy jarls.

What about the East Empire Trading Company? Are they active in Skyrim and if yes, do they like competition? Or should you be able to join them and they allow you to build certain ressource gathering camps and workshops in the name of the company?

Resources can be gathered, imported and exported. There was a mod in Morrowind which allowed people to buy/sell resources by interacting with a book.

Resources not available in Skyrim have to be imported. For example, Skyrim doesn't look like it would be able to grow grapes which are needed to press wine.

Workshops sell the finished products to the townfolk (if it is located near a settlement) or you have to transport it to the market or you can export it to other provinces.

 

Resource gathering buildings:

mining camps (metals and gems, depending on the unclaimed mines that are available)

wood cutter camps and foresters (depending on the trees that grow nearby)

farms (all kind of crops)

ranches (domestic animals)

hunters and rangers (hunting non-domestic animals)

tanner (creates leather from hides)

salt refinery (produces salt from sea water)

pearl farm (produces pearls - if it still exists in Skyrim)

fish farm (produces fish - if that type of food exists in Skyrim)

apiary (produces honey)

brewery (mead, ale, wine)

bakery (bread, sweetrolls etc.)

furniture workshop (produces and sells furniture)

etc.

[PaladinRider]

I just posted my pre-WIP today on the bethsoft forums:Bethsof forums It is similar to this idea but instead of a singe company, you'll be in charge of a city. There will be an involved questline but down to it you must collect resources and build your city. You'll have to defend it, and establish trade. Each building you wish to build will require a certain amount of resources to build. It will be hopefully better than my similar mod for New Vegas

[Tempest203]

I just posted my pre-WIP today on the bethsoft forums:Bethsof forums It is similar to this idea but instead of a singe company, you'll be in charge of a city. There will be an involved questline but down to it you must collect resources and build your city. You'll have to defend it, and establish trade. Each building you wish to build will require a certain amount of resources to build. It will be hopefully better than my similar mod for New Vegas

 

Yes it’s similar, but they’re not mutually exclusive. The Island city could serve as the nexus (Company) or It could simply support / be supported by scripts that allowed recourses to be moved around. Perhaps, an experienced enough smith and enchanter could create a kind of portal arch that merged the storehouses and allowed for free travel. The possibilities are nearly endless, but the important thing is that mods are designed with each other in mind if possible. The worst thing is to find two awesome mods that won’t work togeather as they could have.

[Bismarck]

What about this: you stumble upon a badly guarded caravan of the East Empire Trading Company which wants to establish a trading outpost. When you meet them, they are being ambushed by an enemy (hostile nords, monsters or even a dragon?) and you decide to help them (you join the East Empire Trading Company and you will rise in rank). After killing the enemies, the company begs you to help them and offer you money and economical privileges for your services. You accompany them to a perfect spot for the creation of the outpost (the location should be appropriate: access to sea and the street network).

The settlement starts with a fire, several tents, materials, people and carriages.

You need to locate some resources to build the first stage of the headquarters: wood should suffice for the first phase. Therefore, you're sent out to accompany some woodcutters which are looking for suitable trees in the nearby forest. They will start cutting trees and transporting the lumber to the headquarters. The spot in the woods will develop to a woodcutter camp.

Afterwards, the settlement needs some housing for the people, a stable, a simple dock and perhaps some other stuff. You are sent out to find some locations for basic resources (wood, stone, metal, food) and after having located them, people start building camps, farms and so on. There is a lot to do and the player could help in many ways like escorting, scouting, negotiating with lords and towns etc.

The trading outpost will grow into a small settlement with sturdier buildings and several people. Guards will be hired to protect the companies' property and patrols will patrol the nearby outskirts.

When the headquarters and the first resource locations are up and running, the company wishes to expand. This should allow you to open facilities all over Skyrim.

In the end, you will have a high rank in the company with several privileges, the headquarters will be a thriving and well protected settlement with housing and service buildings, a harbor, stables and more. The camps will be filled with workers and administrative personal.

All of this should be doable with the Creation Kit. Placing buildings into the world and connecting them with enable/disable flags is quite easy. Creating the interiors is also easy work every amateur modder can perform. Fleshing out the story, writing the dialogs, recording voices and scripting is more challenging. I don't know if it is possible to implement an advanced trading system with resource production, transportatin, several costs, wages and income from export and sales, but brilliant modders have achieved a lot which was supposed to be impossible in the past.

 

 

The possibilities are nearly endless, but the important thing is that mods are designed with each other in mind if possible.

Indeed, this is very useful and decreases pain for the average user, but something like that needs good coordination between the modders. There needs to be a proper platform for communication between modders, mod requests, mods in progress and maintaining as much compatibility as possible. Forums are good for discussion, but the more stuff is added, the more difficult it is to find something.

Also, bigger mod packages (one mod to fix game errors and grammar, one mod pack with appropriate textures for the landscape, one mod with appropriate textures for weapons/armours, one mod taking care of crafting etc.) are very convenient for users. It's painful to look for thousands of mods that should have been combined in the first place. Hopefully, the modders will cooperate and communicate as much as possible to improve the game and the usability.

[PaladinRider]

Yes it’s similar, but they’re not mutually exclusive. The Island city could serve as the nexus (Company) or It could simply support / be supported by scripts that allowed recourses to be moved around. Perhaps, an experienced enough smith and enchanter could create a kind of portal arch that merged the storehouses and allowed for free travel. The possibilities are nearly endless, but the important thing is that mods are designed with each other in mind if possible. The worst thing is to find two awesome mods that won’t work togeather as they could have.

Definitely not mutually exclusive. I chose my idea to be on an island for maximum compatibility. hopefully the only 'footprint' on Skyrim will be an added NPC/boat at a dock somewhere for the initial (and reoccuring) travel between.

 

What about this: you stumble upon a badly guarded caravan of the East Empire Trading Company which wants to establish a trading outpost. When you meet them, they are being ambushed by an enemy (hostile nords, monsters or even a dragon?) and you decide to help them (you join the East Empire Trading Company and you will rise in rank). After killing the enemies, the company begs you to help them and offer you money and economical privileges for your services. You accompany them to a perfect spot for the creation of the outpost (the location should be appropriate: access to sea and the street network).

The settlement starts with a fire, several tents, materials, people and carriages.

You need to locate some resources to build the first stage of the headquarters: wood should suffice for the first phase. Therefore, you're sent out to accompany some woodcutters which are looking for suitable trees in the nearby forest. They will start cutting trees and transporting the lumber to the headquarters. The spot in the woods will develop to a woodcutter camp.

Afterwards, the settlement needs some housing for the people, a stable, a simple dock and perhaps some other stuff. You are sent out to find some locations for basic resources (wood, stone, metal, food) and after having located them, people start building camps, farms and so on. There is a lot to do and the player could help in many ways like escorting, scouting, negotiating with lords and towns etc.

The trading outpost will grow into a small settlement with sturdier buildings and several people. Guards will be hired to protect the companies' property and patrols will patrol the nearby outskirts.

When the headquarters and the first resource locations are up and running, the company wishes to expand. This should allow you to open facilities all over Skyrim.

In the end, you will have a high rank in the company with several privileges, the headquarters will be a thriving and well protected settlement with housing and service buildings, a harbor, stables and more. The camps will be filled with workers and administrative personal.

All of this should be doable with the Creation Kit. Placing buildings into the world and connecting them with enable/disable flags is quite easy. Creating the interiors is also easy work every amateur modder can perform. Fleshing out the story, writing the dialogs, recording voices and scripting is more challenging. I don't know if it is possible to implement an advanced trading system with resource production, transportatin, several costs, wages and income from export and sales, but brilliant modders have achieved a lot which was supposed to be impossible in the past.

 

 

The possibilities are nearly endless, but the important thing is that mods are designed with each other in mind if possible.

Indeed, this is very useful and decreases pain for the average user, but something like that needs good coordination between the modders. There needs to be a proper platform for communication between modders, mod requests, mods in progress and maintaining as much compatibility as possible. Forums are good for discussion, but the more stuff is added, the more difficult it is to find something.

Also, bigger mod packages (one mod to fix game errors and grammar, one mod pack with appropriate textures for the landscape, one mod with appropriate textures for weapons/armours, one mod taking care of crafting etc.) are very convenient for users. It's painful to look for thousands of mods that should have been combined in the first place. Hopefully, the modders will cooperate and communicate as much as possible to improve the game and the usability.

This is very close to my original idea! I instead went with an island because it was easier to close it off from the rest of the world. My slight variation was that the player encounters a lone trader who's pack animal (mammoth) died of natural causes. He refused to leave his shipment behind because it was his life savings (and he couldn't carry it himself). His original guards left him - so the player acts as his guard and establishes the city there.

 

I didn't mean to threadjack though, to the OP that's a good idea I was hoping for someone to open up a competitor to the East Empire Trading Co and the EETC would be the villain, harrowing the player's business so to say

[Tempest203]

Keep in mind that I have almost no knowledge of what is possible with mods here, but I do have a background in complex programs/scripts. It seems to me that the best way to get maximum compatibility and still take advantage of the game world and other mods would be to:

 

A: have a non intrusive base of operations private island / ship or my personal favorites being a magic floating island / flying ship (provided the realism can be maintained).

 

B: have NPCs that can dynamically interact with the game world. If anyone has played the X series where ships have complex AIs that allow them to carry out tasks, that’s the idea here, though it’s probably impossible to do anything on that level.

 

It’s more likely that the player would somehow “show” the NPC where to go and what to do. A miner could have a series of waypoints set by the player in game that he uses to find ore. Then drop it off at the smith’s. The miner would likely need guards or be extremely formidable himself, in addition to being set essential naturally. The idea here is that while the player has to spend a great deal of time setting things up (which might actually be a good thing) the mod is compatible with almost anything.

 

Do NPC interactions even take place when the player isn’t around?….. so much for that idea if they don’t.

 

Oh and Bismarck, I don’t mean to ignore your quest ideas. I just need to know what’s possible before I try to think about the story much.

[SyberSmoke]

It’s more likely that the player would somehow “show” the NPC where to go and what to do. A miner could have a series of waypoints set by the player in game that he uses to find ore. Then drop it off at the smith’s. The miner would likely need guards or be extremely formidable himself, in addition to being set essential naturally. The idea here is that while the player has to spend a great deal of time setting things up (which might actually be a good thing) the mod is compatible with almost anything.

 

Wow...that is a little overly complicated really. Simpler would be to reduce the amount of ore generated by a mine to a daily amount. First you need the mines value, this can be based on the type of ore in the mine and the total nodes of ore. Then you use the miner as a multiplier to that value. So lets say each vein is worth .2 ore per day and there are 8 veins, so the mine has a base value of 1.6 units of ore per day.

 

You then hire three novice miners and each one adds a multiplier of say .6 to the amount of ore produced. This comes to 1.6 x (3 x .6) = 2.6 ore per day. This introduces a grade system so hiring better miners would increase your yield, but would also increase daily cost to run the mine.

 

You can also throw in a Protection factor, so miners will be more productive if they feel protected. So say this is worth a + .1 bonus per miner per two guards, max of + .4. So you hire for your mine six guards, this changes the daily output to 4.32 ore per day.

 

The point is that instead of worrying about pathing and having the player do this, you can run these calculations in the background per daily tick and have a mine look like it does now by adding the appropriate number of NPC actors when the player gets into the cell.

[Tempest203]

I just don’t know how the game handles things. Maybe I’ll mess with it once the CK comes out. I hate making plans that might not be feasible.

 

Maybe I’ll workout production chains. How do you make Dwarven oil for instance? It could be something with Taproot as they have the same effects.

 

Going along the same “only make the game do something it the player’s there to see it” line, I was considering a few sort of generic plant growing rooms. There would be a greenhouse, subterranean room, etc that would only populate when the player entered the appropriate door. You might have plant growing rooms for everything in the game, but you’d only need to make as many rooms as you have growing environments.

[Bismarck]

Keep in mind that I have almost no knowledge of what is possible with mods here, but I do have a background in complex programs/scripts.

No problem. I too am no expert, but I have toyed around with previous versions of the Construction set and I guess I know some of the additions that might be possible.

 

 

A: have a non intrusive base of operations private island / ship or my personal favorites being a magic floating island / flying ship (provided the realism can be maintained).

I would try a lore-friendly approach. Floating magical islands are an interesting idea for a total conversion (complete with magical airships and flying carpets), but I would suggest to look for a nice spot in Skyrim where a settlement can be added. It should not be located to close to other cities as this would conflict with several mods that are going to increase the size of Skyrim's "cities" by adding more farms and houses to the outskirts.

A spot near the ocean or a river would be advisable. Alternatively, a small island could be created.

 

 

B: have NPCs that can dynamically interact with the game world. If anyone has played the X series where ships have complex AIs that allow them to carry out tasks, that’s the idea here, though it’s probably impossible to do anything on that level.

Unfortunately, the Elder Scrolls AI is very primitive, which leads to a lot of trouble. I remember that my guards in Oblivion where too stupid to go to bed. Instead, they slept while standing guard!

I think the Skyrim AI is only capable of moving NPCs around the world and setting their animations (idle animations, mining, woodcutting etc.) exactly like in Oblivion. You can also define their combat behaviour (block percentage etc.).

However, advanced features like in X will most likely be not possible.

 

 

It’s more likely that the player would somehow “show” the NPC where to go and what to do.

It's possible to send an NPC to a location. He will go there independent of the player's whereabouts.

NPCs can also follow another NPC or the player.

It is also possible to move them around via a number of waypoints. You can also order them to wait at a specific location, so you can do something else without an NPC following you.

For escorting missions, "follow player" is sufficient. Hopefully, the NPCs won't magically disappear like in Oblivion where I have "lost" my two warrior monk companions. It should be checked if it is possible to fast travel with NPCs and to use transportation and teleportation with followers (someone will eventually make a mark and recall spell).

 

 

Do NPC interactions even take place when the player isn’t around?….. so much for that idea if they don’t.

A very good question. Oblivion had some issues with updating the behaviour of NPCs. After having slept/waited several hours of ingame time, NPCs moved later as defined to a specific location or locked/unlocked the stores too late. Let's see if they fixed the Skyrim AI to respect their daily schedule.

 

 

I just need to know what’s possible before I try to think about the story much.

I too am curious about the new Creation Kit. Hopefully, it will be not as restricted as the Construction Set, but Bethesda is not known to be as cooperative as Taleworlds. The latter company has added possibilities simply to make the modders happy (like firearms, firearms animations and an inactivated firearms skill). Bethesda usually restricts the addition of new animations, magic effects and so on. Let's just wait for the CK.

 

 

Wow...that is a little overly complicated really. Simpler would be to reduce the amount of ore generated by a mine to a daily amount. First you need the mines value, this can be based on the type of ore in the mine and the total nodes of ore. Then you use the miner as a multiplier to that value. So lets say each vein is worth .2 ore per day and there are 8 veins, so the mine has a base value of 1.6 units of ore per day.

 

You then hire three novice miners and each one adds a multiplier of say .6 to the amount of ore produced. This comes to 1.6 x (3 x .6) = 2.6 ore per day. This introduces a grade system so hiring better miners would increase your yield, but would also increase daily cost to run the mine.

 

You can also throw in a Protection factor, so miners will be more productive if they feel protected. So say this is worth a + .1 bonus per miner per two guards, max of + .4. So you hire for your mine six guards, this changes the daily output to 4.32 ore per day.

 

The point is that instead of worrying about pathing and having the player do this, you can run these calculations in the background per daily tick and have a mine look like it does now by adding the appropriate number of NPC actors when the player gets into the cell.

Ever played the Morrowind mod Erengard Mine?

It allows you to run a mine. Several workers can be hired:

Miners need a pick and create daily profit. The money is added into a small money chest which you can plunder.

The foreman handles buying food and drinks. You can also do that yourself by adding edible items and booze into the appropriate storage crates.

Guards prevent miners from stealing some of your profit.

For this Skyrim mod, resources should be created instead of money. The resources can then be sold/exported or refined. For example, iron ore can be turned into an iron ingot thus allowing a smith to produce weapons and armours.

Let's hope it's possible to move resources from one container into another to simulate the transportation of resources.

 

 

I'm already thinking about the mod. It is quite easy to create upgradeable stores/mines/houses. Enable/Disable flags in combination with quest progress IDs will take care of that.

Updating AI packages is possible and the features of the Erengard Mine (and the Balmora clothier + the Caldera smithy which allowed you to sell items that you have put into a container) can most likely be added to Skyrim.