First bad thing to say about Steam since HL2

[cooltrickle]

The consequence of an offline mode that requires you to be online to enable that "option", means you are effectively tied into a periodic activation scheme.

 

Did you even read through the thread or did you just jump in to state your unfounded 'opinion'? A lot of us, including me, don't need to have an internet connection to go into offline mode. I can plug my PC out now while Steam is in online mode, take it to a friend's house without internet, and enter Steam offline mode.

 

I think gamers are being slowly weaned off discs so games can become download-only. I wonder how many "options", we'll have then? We don't really have them now with mandatory periodic activations and forced updates... oh yeah, I forgot crippled retail discs.

 

Show me which games have 'crippled' disks?

 

So in your experience, you can enter offline mode without being online. In my experience, I can't do this. Why does your experience invalidate mine? Do you think I would waste my time posting something that wasn't true? Does it not occur to you that Valve may force offline mode to be entered while online at strategic times, such as before or after an update? I don't actually know what Steam is doing while in the background at all times, and neither do you. All we can do is relay our experiences, so think again before making a daft assertion.

 

Executable files are missing from my Skyrim Disc. The .exe only appeared after Steam downloaded additional files after manual installation. Unless I update immediately, I do not have access to the executable even after Steam activation. I should not be made to accept updates in order to receive the .exe file. The game box explains that internet activation is required to play the game. It doesn't say anything about mandatory updates; updates that have now introduced problems that didn't exist prior to the patch. Again, this is my experience. I don't care if it's not your experience. I can't believe I'm having this argument. :wallbash:

[Halororor]

So in your experience, you can enter offline mode without being online. In my experience, I can't do this. Why does your experience invalidate mine? Do you think I would waste my time posting something that wasn't true?

 

I never said my experience invalidates yours, or that you're lying, so don't put words into mouth or make assumptions. I merely replied to you because you stated your experience as if it was the case for everybody.

 

Does it not occur to you that Valve may force offline mode to be entered while online at strategic times, such as before or after an update? I don't actually know what Steam is doing while in the background at all times, and neither do you. All we can do is relay our experiences, so think again before making a daft assertion.

 

Did it occur to you, that if this were the case, I would have experienced it somewhere along the way? I have never, ever been forced to go online before I could go into offline mode, in all my four years of using Steam. And I constantly go into offline mode for a variety of reasons, one of which is that it appears to use less system resources that way.

 

Executable files are missing from my Skyrim Disc. The .exe only appeared after Steam downloaded additional files after manual installation. Unless I update immediately, I do not have access to the executable even after Steam activation. I should not be made to accept updates in order to receive the .exe file. The game box explains that internet activation is required to play the game. It doesn't say anything about mandatory updates; updates that have now introduced problems that didn't exist prior to the patch. Again, this is my experience. I don't care if it's not your experience. I can't believe I'm having this argument. :wallbash:

 

If you actually bothered to do some research before flapping your mouth, you would know how the Steam patching system works. Steam does not update files, it replaces them. It checks whether a file matches the one in the database, then deletes it and redownloads the updated file. Immediately after installation Steam starts checking for updates. That is why there was no .exe before you applied the patch.

If Steam games did not include the .exe, why then on all my Steam retail games that did not have day one patches, did it not download anything after the install? Metro 2033 and Dungeon Siege 3 both didn't download anything when they installed, and I got both on release day.

Once again, stop making assumptions off of your experience and misconceptions of a single game.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Halororor

[cooltrickle]

You said my opinion is unfounded because it doesn't match yours. And you're still doing it. I know how the patching works. My point is I should be in charge of when my game is patched. I'm not because I can't use the .exe prior to the patch. I have a problem with this, your opinion is irrelevant. I've installed the game twice, once on the 12th November, and I had no problems with the game. I had to install again just after the 1.3 patch. This patch was forced on me. Now, I watched the install folder with my own eyes and saw that the .exe was not there until AFTER activation and updating. Therefore, the .exe was not replaced as it wasn't there to begin with. This patch has spoiled my enjoyment of the game. I'm not assuming that this is the case for everyone, just me. Also, my experience of Steam stretches beyond Skyrim, so stop making assumptions about me.

 

What I don't understand is why you're picking on my posts when the OP has the same problem using offline mode when not online. Oh yeah, he's the admin, isn't he? I did read the thread. I read that the OP can't use offline mode without the internet. I also read people trying to persuade him that it must be his imagination because they don't have that problem. :rolleyes:

[Halororor]

Because the OP isn't making baseless claims about how Steam works.

 

Did you notice my post on the first page of the thread? I acknowledged the issue and that some people are experiencing it. I only said your opinion was unfounded because you stated it as fact as if it was true for every Steam user.

 

You're making baseless claims again in an attempt to appear witty, and it's only making you look a fool. Seeing as you claim to have read the entire thread, the only logical conclusion is that your reading skills are a bit lacking, therefor I'm going to highlight the part you seem to have misinterpreted.

 

Oddly, mine never does that. The moment my connection dies, I can go into offline mode without a hitch, unless there's no login details saved on my PC. I've heard of other people having the issue though, so it seems to be very hit and miss.

 

Now, does it still sound like I'm trying to convince the OP that his issue is imaginary?

 

Also, I never even made any comment on the forced updates. I merely made a comment on how you were making baseless claims, stating that Steam games are incomplete on the disk, merely by the way in which you observed the patching process. Have you considered that Steam might be checking the files as they install, then not installing them if there are updated files in the database? It's entirely possible and not in the slightest far-fetched, and would explain why my Steam starts updating the game almost before the installation has even had a chance to properly finish. I'm not stating it as fact, but it's entirely possible, and makes a lot more sense than the alternative.

 

In any case, even if the .exe isn't on the disk, which I highly doubt as my experience with numerous other Steam games has proven otherwise, what does it matter? You're NOT buying an incomplete game, as you can't install the game without Steam anyways. If Steam then has to download the .exe file, then voila! complete game. The only time you would be inconvenienced by the .exe not being on the disk was if you were using a pirate program to unpack the game from the disk.

 

Either way, I'm not going to continue this debate with you. I've had my say. You can't seem to substantiate your points any further, so instead you're starting to attack my posts by saying I'm trying to 'invalidate' yours and that I'm 'picking' on you. If posting in reply to you because I'm having a debate with you is considered picking on you, then I have no business having a debate with you in the first place. The only thing that will come of continuing this debate is a descent into a 'he said, she said' debate until either of us gets a warning or the thread gets locked.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Halororor

[Balagor]

>snip>

it's for research purposes only, which I don't mind at all.

>snip<.

 

So they say themselves, then we belive them.

They are gonna tell us every time they have something to sell, they are gonna share the research with others, to target us.

I stopped playing when Steam started. Roger over and done,

And I won´t find my self in the same problem as Dark0ne and pay for it.

[RitualBlack]

I mostly get steam games, but I have a decent library of non-steam games. Their games are often so cheap that when they don't work (due to steam) it really doesn't matter. I think I have 80-90ish games which I have purchased for less than $400. It may even be even less than $300 spent but I am not sure, regardless its still less than 7 new xbox games. When steam is down or I can't go offline mode I just pop in the Blade of Darkness or SOF2 CD, or play WC3 or some indie games not sold through steam.

 

Its not just steam that targets us. Web advertisements are often targeted at you based on your cookies. Having your information shared happens in the real world all the time also, its not something you can realistically avoid. If you happen to have a store members card your phone number was likely sold/released to companies involved in telemarketing. Companies have even gone so far as to place rfid tags into the clothes consumers buy. I think that most people would be more worried about having a small tag possible of being tracked in ones pants than steam releasing some information about buying habits or system specs. I am on steams side with this one (yay! brainwashed brand based loyalty). I am sure that nearly every large company has a few dirty secrets, but game distributor isn't going to be plotting something harmful against its customers unless its an attempt to destroy their social life :tongue: .

 

From the way this discussion is turning out it should be moved to the debate section :laugh: .

[Balagor]

>snip<

From the way this discussion is turning out it should be moved to the debate section :laugh: .

 

Good idea, however. we had one, started October -11, that would be kinda necromancy to revive that :thumbsup:

[Vagrant0]

>snip<

From the way this discussion is turning out it should be moved to the debate section :laugh: .

 

Good idea, however. we had one, started October -11, that would be kinda necromancy to revive that :thumbsup:

It also ended essentially the same way this one is starting to go. People who hate steam and refuse to use it making claims about fictitious problems and potential problems, rather than focusing on the real ones which actually exist.

[Halororor]

People who hate steam and refuse to use it making claims about fictitious problems and potential problems, rather than focusing on the real ones which actually exist.

 

You know, this just reminds me why you're still my favorite mod, if not one of my favorite posters around here. You're never afraid to speak your mind, even since the days before you were a mod.

 

I'd much rather spend my energy trying to think of ways to make draconian DRM like Origin or uPlay adopt a DRM model like Steam, rather than think up reasons for why Steam is going to lead to the gaming industry demanding DNA tests every time we want to play our games.

 

I can understand that some people don't like Steam or have numerous issues with it, but what I can't understand is why people need to make it out to be the Hitler of the gaming industry. (Also, with the invocation of Godwin's Law, the thread has officially gone to the dogs. :P)

Edited January 11, 2012 by Halororor

[Vagrant0]

What I meant were those things about Steam which people would have real reason to be upset over, and things which don't have much reason for existing in the first place...

 

Like having to load up steam or connect occasionally for single player games, even when you run them directly from the .exe.

 

Or the way that they force you to update a non-online game when it is run even if your settings say to not update that game.

 

Or the inclusion of VAC on singleplayer modes of some games.

 

 

Stuff like that. I personally don't mind Steam since I have a reasonably stable connection and don't have many games through it at the moment. And it is still far better than Origins or what Ubisoft has been pulling. But Steam is far from being perfect. What ever happened to the middle ground?