Lachdonin Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Well Padomy isn't anything but a force of nature, it has no form, Sithis is the avatar of the force. Also the spirit of Lucian made me change from your view, which I did originally believe. It was never implied anywhere that Nerevar or the CoC achieved CHIM. The COC mantled Sheogorath, mantling =/= CHIM, and Nerevar suppoedly went to akavair. I shall have to actually use that summon... Or any summon really. Anyway, there is very little in-game information regarding CHIM, for a very good reason of course. If scholars understood the concept, we'd have people zero-summing left right and center. As such, we have to consider meta information as well as in universe. The existance of the Construction Sets serves as a basis for the arguement that the PC's from Morrowind and Oblivion acheived CHIM. Their actions after the fact (Becomming Sheogorath and going to Akivir) don't really dispute this since we don't really have much information of CHIM's really exercising their power. Vivec, for instance, took proper command of his armies rather than using hand-wavum powers to make the enemy go away. Talos, on the other hand, only seems to ahve reshaped Cyrodiil using his omnipitance. Taking mundane actions does not invalidate the idea of being CHIM. I have my own hypothesis as to why CHIM seem to limited, but thats more appropriate for elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sajuukkhar9000 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Spectral_AssassinThe spirit of Lucien Lachance makes several comments that relate to him, at least believing that he was summoned from The Void. We have to take into account Bethesda's general rule of not telling you what your character did in the game so they don't invalidate your decisions. Many people never used the CK and as such those peoples characters not achieving CHIM is equally likely. While the Neravarine and the CoC may have achieved CHIM, I don't think there has been any hint to it, as per Bethesda's usuall operation methods. Edited January 15, 2012 by sajuukkhar9000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fntz Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 What's a CHIM ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) What's a CHIM ? CHIM is a complex state of spiritual awairness which will make your brain bleed if you dig too deep into it. Essentially though, it's based on the idea that the entire TES universe is a Dream/Illusion/Computer Program(depending on who you talk to. The Dream/Godhead is the official explination, but there are other interpretations). Anyway, if a mortal descovers that it's a dream, the logical part of their mind can't deal with it and they 'Zero-Sum'. That is, they can't reconcile 2 facts, those being "I exist in the universe" (+1) and "The universe does not exist" (-1). As such, they get "I exist in a universe which does not exist, thus i do not exist" ([+1]+[-1]= 0 ) and they sort of poof out of existance. Some individuals are so mentally powerful, however, that they can overcome this logical contradiction. Vivec alludes to it revolving around the nature of love, and loving yourself so much you beleive you exist when you really don't, but thats beside the point. By knowing that the universe isn't real, these individuals can manipulate it at will, essentially becomming lucid dreamers in the 'dream world'. They constantly risk their ballance, though, for if they manipulate the world too much, the rational contradiction nags at them until they zero-sum. If they don't explore their ability to manipulate the world, the 'fall alseep' again and lose all memory of the insight. The CS/CK is generally regarded as an expression of CHIM. You manipulate and shape the world to your whims, while still being able to interact within it. Its also able to explain the cohesive 'story' of the TES universe, in that these CHIM individuals can efectivly create their own pocket realities to manipulate at will, seperating their timeline from the 'true story'. Edited January 24, 2012 by Lachdonin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarimae Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 In the End, all your seoul is given to Sheogorath. Strictly. There is no matter of "this or that Daedra or this or that Semi-God..." There is only one ... Sheogorath. In the case, you didn't realize : There is no Tamriel. all was just a damn evil trick of Sheogorath. There is no chice. There was never. Wabbajack. Even this forums don't wabberjack exist. Face the truth. You got WABBAJACKED ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimF Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The problem is, that your soul can't go to both Sithis' and Nocturnal's planes (say, Void and Shadows). Basically, you should be able to become a guild master of a single guild of all only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The problem is, that your soul can't go to both Sithis' and Nocturnal's planes (say, Void and Shadows). Basically, you should be able to become a guild master of a single guild of all only. Ultimately souls pass from the realms of the Daedra into the void anyway. If you worship more than one Daedra, your soul should, in principal, be passed from one to another before fading into the void entirely. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the dynamic of juggling souls for the Daedra, and the system of servitude isn't really that complext. Hell, the Dunmer have been worshiping the Daedra for thousands of years, and theres no real convolution to their afterlife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marharth Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The problem is, that your soul can't go to both Sithis' and Nocturnal's planes (say, Void and Shadows). Basically, you should be able to become a guild master of a single guild of all only. Ultimately souls pass from the realms of the Daedra into the void anyway. If you worship more than one Daedra, your soul should, in principal, be passed from one to another before fading into the void entirely. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the dynamic of juggling souls for the Daedra, and the system of servitude isn't really that complext. Hell, the Dunmer have been worshiping the Daedra for thousands of years, and theres no real convolution to their afterlife.I still don't get why you wouldn't just go right to the void. I really don't think Daedra would care much about your soul if you served a more powerful force. That and the dragon born technically has a Aedra soul right? How would that even work out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lachdonin Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) When looking at the Aedra, NO ONE who worships the Divines goes to an Aedric realm. They get their memories erased, and their souls are essentially stuck in cold storage, before eventually fading in the void. The Daedra, on the other hand, have numerous uses for the souls of mortal followers. Hercine, for instance, uses them in his Hunts, either as hunting beasts or as prey. Sanguine needs people to party with. Azura has some motherly overtones, though Sul indicates shes something of a clingy girlfriend type personality who just doesn't like letting go. Molag Bal needs people to oppress. Etc. The uses a Daedra has for you are all part of the 'terms of service' in following them, and you are required to fulfil that contract by forces beyond even the Daedra. Without a mortal body, however, it seems souls slowly 'bleed out'. Eventually, they collapse altogether and enter the void. When you follow Sithis exclusivly, this colapse seems to happen even faster. Edited January 25, 2012 by Lachdonin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fntz Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 What's a CHIM ? CHIM is a complex state of spiritual awairness which will make your brain bleed if you dig too deep into it. Essentially though, it's based on the idea that the entire TES universe is a Dream/Illusion/Computer Program(depending on who you talk to. The Dream/Godhead is the official explination, but there are other interpretations). Anyway, if a mortal descovers that it's a dream, the logical part of their mind can't deal with it and they 'Zero-Sum'. That is, they can't reconcile 2 facts, those being "I exist in the universe" (+1) and "The universe does not exist" (-1). As such, they get "I exist in a universe which does not exist, thus i do not exist" ([+1]+[-1]= 0 ) and they sort of poof out of existance. Some individuals are so mentally powerful, however, that they can overcome this logical contradiction. Vivec alludes to it revolving around the nature of love, and loving yourself so much you beleive you exist when you really don't, but thats beside the point. By knowing that the universe isn't real, these individuals can manipulate it at will, essentially becomming lucid dreamers in the 'dream world'. They constantly risk their ballance, though, for if they manipulate the world too much, the rational contradiction nags at them until they zero-sum. If they don't explore their ability to manipulate the world, the 'fall alseep' again and lose all memory of the insight. The CS/CK is generally regarded as an expression of CHIM. You manipulate and shape the world to your whims, while still being able to interact within it. Its also able to explain the cohesive 'story' of the TES universe, in that these CHIM individuals can efectivly create their own pocket realities to manipulate at will, seperating their timeline from the 'true story'. Wow. thanks a lot. thats really insightful and a cool concept, one more question was it developed by the fans or the producers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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