redneck1st Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 In my opinion and from what I've seen on here allot of folks want things when they want it and they shouldn't have to way. Sorry for those not getting their way The folks working on Skyse are doing so on their time and not asking for any money what so ever/. They've got jobs and families just like many of the rest of us and aren't working every minute of every day on this. So you have to be patient and let them work on it. It will be ready when it's ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schlangster Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 The source code is included with every release, but that doesn't mean it's released under an open source license. To quote the readme: Can I modify and release my own version of SKSE based on the included source code? * Can I modify and release my own version of SKSE based on the included source code? - No; the suggested method for extending SKSE is to write a plugin. If this does not meet your needs, please email the contact addresses listed below. This license applies to all of the files in src/common: Copyright © 2006-2011 Ian Patterson ... The license applies to all of the files in src/common - not to the files in src/skse. https://github.com/NightQuest/SKSEIt's not an alternative, it's just the SKSE source code of each release uploaded to GitHub. And if you are looking to contribute, just do some work and submit it for review? Worked out fine for me even though the project was not handed over to me first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkmutant Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 The source code is included with every release, but that doesn't mean it's released under an open source license. To quote the readme:Can I modify and release my own version of SKSE based on the included source code? * Can I modify and release my own version of SKSE based on the included source code?- No; the suggested method for extending SKSE is to write a plugin. If this does not meet your needs, please email the contact addresses listed below.This license applies to all of the files in src/common: Copyright © 2006-2011 Ian Patterson...The license applies to all of the files in src/common - not to the files in src/skse. https://github.com/NightQuest/SKSEIt's not an alternative, it's just the SKSE source code of each release uploaded to GitHub. And if you are looking to contribute, just do some work and submit it for review? Worked out fine for me even though the project was not handed over to me first. Ah okay, thanks for the clarification. Given the current state of things, I think that repeating the work that has already been done for 64 bit compatibility, then submitting it to an inactive team for possible release would be unwise. And, of course, releasing a fork without their express permission is not allowed (and I highly doubt they would ever allow it). Right now it seems like the only options are for them to release the source for the work they've done so far so it can be continued, or wait for them to finish. Still, it's great they've been releasing their source thus far, I'm sure it will prove useful in the future, regardless of the outcome of SKSE for SSE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nkmutant Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 (edited) Thanks for the heads up! This is the source you were talking about, right? https://github.com/NightQuest/SKSE I guess that must be the source that the other person used in order to come up with the alternative 64 bit SKSE. Of course, they got shut down by the SKSE team, so that's not an option. I will still definitely be digging into this. While I don't really have the appetite for rebuilding SKSE for a 6 year old game at this point, I will make sure I understand the logic so that when the next Elder Scrolls game is released, I'll be ready :smile: I understand that there are some strong opinions in here but can we try to keep it civil? It would really suck to have this thread locked, some useful information does come out of it (like the Github tip) Someone else came up with an alternative and was shut down? When/how did that happen? As mentioned by others, it looks like the source is already included with each build. So, files freely available. And the license appears to give permission to make your own fork provided that you give credit, etc.: This license applies to all of the files in src/common: Copyright © 2006-2011 Ian Patterson This software is provided 'as-is', without any express or impliedwarranty. In no event will the authors be held liable for any damagesarising from the use of this software. Permission is granted to anyone to use this software for any purpose,including commercial applications, and to alter it and redistribute itfreely, subject to the following restrictions: 1. The origin of this software must not be misrepresented; you must not claim that you wrote the original software. If you use this software in a product, an acknowledgment in the product documentation would be appreciated but is not required. 2. Altered source versions must be plainly marked as such, and must not be misrepresented as being the original software. 3. This notice may not be removed or altered from any source distribution. I hope that you re-consider for SE. With mods, I think that it's still not too far behind newer games. And the experience would most likely help a future TES build. Maybe once a file comparison is done, the tasks needed will be more manageable than expected. OR, what about F4SE? Yeah, I remember back when SSE was first released, there was an unofficial SKSE port that was shut down pretty quickly. Not sure how much functionality it had, I think it was more like a PoC. Of course that's entirely within the rights of the SKSE team, but it made a lot more sense back when they were still actively developing. Edited April 16, 2017 by nkmutant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cdcooley Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 And if you are looking to contribute, just do some work and submit it for review? Worked out fine for me even though the project was not handed over to me first.You aren't the only one. Many people have quietly (and politely) contributed to the various script extenders over the years. But as far as I know every one of them started by demonstrating that they had the skills needed to do the job rather than publicly seeking permission, submitting a resume, or trying to release their own version. The problem right now is that if the team doesn't have enough time to work on the project themselves they also don't have enough time to review other people's contributions. At this point the most important task is verifying that the existing code is doing what it was meant to do and not doing something harmful. It would be extremely hard for someone not intimately familiar with the code to do what needs to be done. It's certainly not a good time for someone new to join the team unless that person is extremely skilled and has a ridiculous amount of free time. The only reason the Script Extenders are so widely accepted and desired is because of their high quality. And that quality is a direct result of the high standards the team demands of themselves and any contributors. They aren't going to release a new version (or let anyone else do so) until they are sure the result works and isn't going to corrupt anyone's game. I wrote the very first mod that required MWSE, half of my published Skyrim mods use SKSE, and most of the mods I use in my own game do too. So I really do understand how hard it is to wait. But I was also an early developer of the Morrowind Script Extender (who was very happy to hand the project off to more skilled people) so I know enough about this team and what they are doing to say that it would take someone very special to be able to help them right now. The rest of us just need to wait. (Patience is optional but highly recommended.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterlogic Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 (edited) I read the update. I'm too cynical to assume that work will indeed be resumed on SKSE64 any time this century, especially given that many people seem to prefer the far more unstable Oldrim for some reason in the first place. Asking them to consider handing the project over to someone else if they truly haven't the time or inclination to do it themselves isn't offensive, it's logical. Agreed. I would love to be proven wrong. But, I think that the writing is on the wall here. In my opinion and from what I've seen on here allot of folks want things when they want it and they shouldn't have to way. Sorry for those not getting their way The folks working on Skyse are doing so on their time and not asking for any money what so ever/. They've got jobs and families just like many of the rest of us and aren't working every minute of every day on this. So you have to be patient and let them work on it. It will be ready when it's ready. Nobody is insisting that the SKSE team has to do anything at all. It's a mod that is key for other mods. So, modders want to find a way to fill that void. If the SKSE team doesn't have time, nobody is blaming them. That doesn't mean that we all have to sit around wondering what to do. There are other people with the skill-set to do this work. The source code is included with every release, but that doesn't mean it's released under an open source license. To quote the readme:Can I modify and release my own version of SKSE based on the included source code? * Can I modify and release my own version of SKSE based on the included source code?- No; the suggested method for extending SKSE is to write a plugin. If this does not meet your needs, please email the contact addresses listed below.This license applies to all of the files in src/common: Copyright © 2006-2011 Ian Patterson...The license applies to all of the files in src/common - not to the files in src/skse. https://github.com/NightQuest/SKSEIt's not an alternative, it's just the SKSE source code of each release uploaded to GitHub. And if you are looking to contribute, just do some work and submit it for review? Worked out fine for me even though the project was not handed over to me first. Thank you for pointing that out. I stand corrected. I thought that I had read all the text files in the package I downloaded. But, I must have missed that. Ah okay, thanks for the clarification. Given the current state of things, I think that repeating the work that has already been done for 64 bit compatibility, then submitting it to an inactive team for possible release would be unwise. And, of course, releasing a fork without their express permission is not allowed (and I highly doubt they would ever allow it). Right now it seems like the only options are for them to release the source for the work they've done so far so it can be continued, or wait for them to finish. Still, it's great they've been releasing their source thus far, I'm sure it will prove useful in the future, regardless of the outcome of SKSE for SSE. Agreed. What is the point of submitting code to a team that doesn't have time to clarify progress for months at a time or discuss for themselves whether or not they would be open to it? As you wrote earlier, the right thing to do would be to hand the thing off and try to help the new guy(s). Yeah, I remember back when SSE was first released, there was an unofficial SKSE port that was shut down pretty quickly. Not sure how much functionality it had, I think it was more like a PoC. Of course that's entirely within the rights of the SKSE team, but it made a lot more sense back when they were still actively developing. Interesting. Yeah. Got to play by the rules. Though, I think it's a bit of a gray area given that SKSE is almost certainly infringing on Bethesda's rights to begin with. It's kind of like trying to defend your right to bootleg Bruce Springsteen CDs in China. You aren't the only one. Many people have quietly (and politely) contributed to the various script extenders over the years. But as far as I know every one of them started by demonstrating that they had the skills needed to do the job rather than publicly seeking permission, submitting a resume, or trying to release their own version. The problem right now is that if the team doesn't have enough time to work on the project themselves they also don't have enough time to review other people's contributions. At this point the most important task is verifying that the existing code is doing what it was meant to do and not doing something harmful. It would be extremely hard for someone not intimately familiar with the code to do what needs to be done. It's certainly not a good time for someone new to join the team unless that person is extremely skilled and has a ridiculous amount of free time. The only reason the Script Extenders are so widely accepted and desired is because of their high quality. And that quality is a direct result of the high standards the team demands of themselves and any contributors. They aren't going to release a new version (or let anyone else do so) until they are sure the result works and isn't going to corrupt anyone's game. I wrote the very first mod that required MWSE, half of my published Skyrim mods use SKSE, and most of the mods I use in my own game do too. So I really do understand how hard it is to wait. But I was also an early developer of the Morrowind Script Extender (who was very happy to hand the project off to more skilled people) so I know enough about this team and what they are doing to say that it would take someone very special to be able to help them right now. The rest of us just need to wait. (Patience is optional but highly recommended.) I respect where you're coming from. But, see it differently. Modding these games is a community effort. SKSE is a key mod. But, it is also the work of many other modders that deliver the final results to the community. Approaching the SKSE team shouldn't be like a bunch of Walmart employees trying to have a meeting with the Walton family. It should be a mutual collaboration. If they don't have time, nobody blames them. But, then, they shouldn't be preventing others from doing the work. What good does that do for anyone? On a technical level, my understanding is that the SE API is unchanged on the Bethesda side. So, no QA should be needed for that. The work needed, based on my reading of Behippo's comments, is re-establishing the hooks for functions. I imagine that is a grind. But, more of a process oriented task than something that needs much QA. Edited April 16, 2017 by waterlogic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EB64 Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 The SKSE team can't win in the eyes of you impatient people... They work behind the scenes coding things when they can but not post frequent updates = They're obviously not working at all and have abandoned the project.They post frequent(daily?) updates on progress, even if there hasn't been much = They're wasting precious coding time to post that there's not been much/any progress.They release what they have so far, even though it's missing features and is untested/buggy = They're incompetent and should hand the project to someone who knows how to code. Chill out and be patient. Many of you have already said you continue to play Oldrim because it has what you want right now, so just continue to do so until SKSE64 is ready for release and your favorite mods have finally been ported over. I think the majority of us would rather have a stable product with a lot of features rather than a bare-bones mess that causes CTD/BSOD/etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulThievery Posted April 16, 2017 Share Posted April 16, 2017 Please lock this thread. Why can't you simply choose not to read it? And risk missing an actual update? ---- Maybe, we should try using this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristotle99 Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 (edited) The reverential way in which people describe a "computer engineer" suggests a cutting-edge scientist, a top diplomat, or a Fortune 500 CEO. There is not one spare minute for such a person. Even "off-time" has to be strictly budgeted, diarized and accounted for. We're really lucky we got the paragraph-update on March 31. Edited April 17, 2017 by aristotle99 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waterlogic Posted April 17, 2017 Share Posted April 17, 2017 They work behind the scenes coding things when they can but not post frequent updates = They're obviously not working at all and have abandoned the project.They post frequent(daily?) updates on progress, even if there hasn't been much = They're wasting precious coding time to post that there's not been much/any progress.They release what they have so far, even though it's missing features and is untested/buggy = They're incompetent and should hand the project to someone who knows how to code. I don't see anyone saying those things... And risk missing an actual update? They can just look at the download site for that. The reverential way in which people describe a "computer engineer" suggests a cutting-edge scientist, a top diplomat, or a Fortune 500 CEO. There is not one spare minute for such a person. Even "off-time" has to be strictly budgeted, diarized and accounted for. We're really lucky we got the paragraph-update on March 31. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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